dubdisciple
Sharke and rain. Not once did I mention anything about thugs or anything related. I said that conversations on such tend to bring out statements with racist elements. Not once did I say not liking rap or liking rap by white rappers made one racist.
Craigb. One of the sad things about what you said about most of the popular "thuggish" type rap coming from uneducated, etc is that many of these so called thugs DO know better. Many are educated and choose that path because it is financially lucrative. When rap was confined mostly to poorly educated people it was not "gangster" at all. It was mostly spontaneous party chants and variations of Jamaican toasting. The next phase saw a rise of "concscious" rappers. The likes of public enemy, krs-one, tribe called qwest were big for a bit. It was when rap became pop product for mass consumption by people of all social and economic backgrounds that it became so negative. There are Juliard graduates making songs about hos. Like you said..we are not the demographic for the music. Just like our parents were not tbe demographic for Sid Vicious or many other acts deemed highly offensive in their day. I recall how appalled my grandmother used tobe at acts now reverred today. She hates rap too.
I think there is a misunderstanding here, and I know
you didn't mean to imply that people who didn't like rap were necessarily racists.
In the context of this thread where someone specifically made a comment about people not liking "black music", I felt it appropriate to elaborate a little on the topic.
As for thugs knowing better, I do agree. And it only make things worst if you ask me. It's one thing for a kid who's been brought up in a tough environment where crime is part of every day life to brag about making their way out of it and becoming rich and successful and be arrogant about it. I don't think it makes it acceptable, but I can understand that.
But knowing that some of those guys are only cashing in on the attitude and milking it - while glorifying a lifestyle that's based upon the utmost disrespect of others? That's not working for me.
One of the things I do remember about growing up as a "marginal" is that, the basic culture behind rock and metal and punk had a lot more to do with self-destructive behaviours and defying authorities than shooting one another and abusing girls.
Man, I see kids on the streets these days - little 14-16 years old - and guys being totally abusive and physically roughing girls and saying things even my dad wouldn't have said to my mom... And you can see they're mimicking that attitude... I can't stand for that. I don't want my daughter to think it's only normal to be slapped in the face and treated like trash.
Us metalheads... Well, you might have accused us of being misogynistic or too like girls a bit to much but at the end of the day, the girls were mostly put on a pedestal and we'd do anything to be w/ one. Worst thing we did was sleep around. And I don't remember Metallica or Iron Maiden writing songs about date rapping or slapping that b**ch... Or advocating shooting each other and actually doing it.
Deep down inside, metalheads were more like leather clad hippies. And for the biggest part, you could hurt yourself as much as you want, take drugs, drink booze, make graffiti of reversed crosses or w/ the lyrics of a Slayer song, get into trouble, but there was sort of a code of honour.
I know it's not all rap and hip hop. But its the one with the most flamboyant and excessive message that I hear and see out there. That's the one I'm dealing with when I see a kid on the bus with the typical sport outfit, pants down to his knees, sitting as to take as much space as possible - at least 2 places - and looking people with that attitude...
As for the description of it being loops and all, I know it is a generalization, and a way to synthesize all I don't really like about rap, more than an actual pattern. They could be programmed drums or recycled beats or whatever - it doesn't make them and the inherent lack of diversity more enjoyable to me. I know they don't all rip off 80s hits...
I just don't think that there's much to it. I may enjoy one Cypress Hill song, but at some points I want to hear chords and melodies and harmonies and modulations and different instruments and something that's not in 4/4 or even where there's no drums... Pop music is already a pretty restrictive genre