\o
 
I listen to quite a lot of Zappa, but have a tough time trying to work out what time signature (or combinations thereof) he's using on some tracks.
 
A good case in point; the beginning of the guitar solo on 'Yo Mama', from the album Sheik Yerbouti.  I *think* he's mixing bars of different time signatures, but if I try to count 'in 8ths' that's too fast for my brain to keep up with, and if I count 'in beats', the time signatures seem to be changing too quickly for me to be able to lock onto any of them.
 
'Normal' unusual time signatures (e.g. 7/8) I can work out reasonably easily (e.g. the instrumental part of Genesis's The Cinema Show) but I'm at a loss as to how to approach more complex stuff.
 
If anybody has some tips or ideas to share, that'd be great.  If you could let me know what on earth Zappa is doing on Yo Mama that'd be equally appreciated :-)

You can sample a few bars from the one of the tracks and use Audiosnap to define the tempo. Define some transient positions. For example, 7/8 time beats expressed in normal 4/4 time would be 14 beats so you would really need to change the time signature to suit. Changing the project time signature will help find the correct tempo for you.
 
Your best bet would analyse the style work out where the transients lie until you find a working method. Using the playback metronome might help too. Then there's Melodyne which is good for detecting timings too.
 
Or even seek out the sheet music online.
 

I think it's 6/4, 4/4, but Frank is kind of free wheeling there.
I use this
Amazing Slow Downer by Roni Music
https://appsto.re/ca/-iVAs.i
to work out parts I want to learn. Have not tried for time signatures, but would bet it would work great to slow down a song enough to be able to count it properly.

Cheers guys, some good ideas to try out there :-)

I agree that Frank is free wheeling in that solo, as he did often. I prefer to think of music like that as being in 1/1 time. 
 
Here's a transcription from 1:22 - 2:52 which includes the start of that solo - the transcriber has marked it as "no meter." And from the looks of things, he or she definitely knows what he or she is talking about!
 
http://www.zappa-analysis.com/yomama4-f.htm

Yeah, Frank's really freewheeling at the beginning there :-)
 
I should have been clearer, sorry; I meant when the drums finally kick in at the 4 minute mark (but before the later two-chord passage which is in 4 time).  Sounds like there's an odd numbered time in there somewhere.
 
I'll check your link Sharke, ta.
 
edit, found this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Z...ure_on_the_solo_in_yo/

It never ceases to amaze me that whenever complex time signatures are discussed, Zappa is ALWAYS mentioned.

It doesn't surprise me at all. He had a huge catalog of music and most of it featured complex meter. What amazes me is how he managed to make such sophisticated rhythm and harmony sound so accessible.

One of the most insane things he used to do was because while on tour, he came to the conclusion that the musicians weren't paying enough attention because of the repetition of songs, so he used to have a whole bunch of different signals - like a 3rd-base baseball coach.  If he tugged on his left earlobe, it meant for them to play the next section in a different style - like maybe Reggae, or jazz, or whatever.  That made all the musicians stay on their toes, and kept the performances more energized.  Imagine having to do all that in addition to the crazy (but genius) music itself, both notes and meter.
 
Amazing.
 
Oh, I too rely HEAVILY on the Amazing Slow Downer, for slowing things down and keeping the same pitch, and for being able to dynamically set loop points.  That allows me to slow down and loop through troublesome parts of songs.  I am literally using it now to help prepare for a show tomorrow, where I am playing 34 songs - many of which are with musicians I do not know, nor do I know many of the songs.  The Amazing Slow Downer is a FABULASTIC tool for figuring tunes out.  I run its output through my HDTV HDMI port and its speakers, and play along with Sonar or some other stand-alone synth using my audio interface ASIO drivers.
 
Bob Bone
 

sharke
It doesn't surprise me at all. He had a huge catalog of music and most of it featured complex meter. What amazes me is how he managed to make such sophisticated rhythm and harmony sound so accessible.

What I find amazing is the ability of his various bands to pull off this stuff live!
This is certainly true from about 1974 onwards.
It's great that Dweezil is carrying on the tradition with his Zappa plays Zappa band