mike_mccue
 

SteveStrummerUK
"I never understand why rational and intelligent human beings, who would normally seek out and act upon research and evidence before committing to some particular action, suspend all such rationality when the matter of religion is the subject in question."

 
It probably has something to do with evolutionary biology.
 
I am still trying to figure out why my dog is willing to come inside each night when he obviously has so much fun running the neighborhood.

Are you suggesting that a predisposition for belief in god/gods is genetic in nature?
 
That the human gene pool has evolved to include this trait?
 
Or maybe you were being a little playful and just trying to belittle my studies by throwing the term "evolutionary biology" back in my face 
 

mike_mccue
 
 

SteveStrummerUK
"Or you wouldn't put medicine into your body that hadn't been put through countless lengthy and sophisticated clinical trials, would you?"

 
Classic! There is no way for most individuals to prove to them selves that any medicine they have been offered has been tested or is even what the label purports it to be. This is a classic example where the recipients have to more or less believe that someone else has access to the proof and verification.
 

 
Well, that's an old chestnut - I really thought you were better than that Mike.
 
There's a massive difference between having 'faith/belief' that medicine is actually tested pretty scrupulously and 'trust' that the systems that run to ensure these trials take place actually do so. This is how modern civilisation functions - we each contribute different skills to the common good. Some people record the audio for TV shows and some people organise and moderate clinical trials. I'm sure that if you really wanted to be sure for yourself that these trials were being conducted, and being conducted truthfully, you could find a way to do so.
 
 

mike_mccue
 
 
 

SteveStrummerUK
"I often hear the argument that, as an atheist, I do actually believe in something - in other words that I believe there is no god.... In a way, it's similar to demanding that an atheist proves there is no god,"
 

That is what it is. It is easy to see how atheism is merely another form of belief.

 
Maybe, but one needs to define 'belief'. I see there being an enormous difference between 'believing' something based on peer-reviewed and repeatable evidence, and 'believing' something for no good reason whatsoever.
 

mike_mccue 
 
 
It is a wonder to me that some people have evolved to find belief so distasteful. :-)
 

 
As I've mentioned before, I don't find belief (in god/gods), in and of itself, distasteful. What I do find distasteful in the extreme is having my life affected in any way by the beliefs (in god/gods) of others.
 
I even understand why people feel the need to believe (in god/gods). My personal feeling, particularly with regard to the premise of original sin in Christianity and the promise of eternal salvation, is that it's a comfort blanket at best, and complete abrogation of personal responsibility for ones actions at worse.
 
Some people drink, or take narcotics to help get them through the day, some people pray and go to church. It takes all sorts I guess.
 
My own long-held theory (and incidentally which would have been the subject for my thesis had I finished my University course) is that devout religious belief and obsessive compulsive disorder are just different points on the same spectrum, a spectrum that also includes superstition (and might even stretch as to include afflictions such as a genuine belief in astrology, ghosts and psychic reading).
 
Who knows?
 
 
 
 

Coffee tables are even worse.

Wouldn't know.  
 
Anyway, too late to back out gracefully but I'm out. I'll try and digest this advanced logic at a later date.

backwoods
Steve, yeah they did not do it in the name of atheism just like "virgin' teachers don't do their deeds in the name of religion. Pretty basic I would have thought. 

 
I never implied that they did. What I said was: "Why should I respect anyone whose religion not just ignored, but arguably fostered an environment in which middle-aged male 'virgins' took sexual advantage of small boys and girls entrusted to their care?"
 
You cannot seriously believe that the Catholic Church didn't operated a 'look the other way' policy with regard to known paedophile priests in its ranks? It's common knowledge that in the past if one of them was implicated in such behaviour, the matter was hushed up and the 'offender' quietly moved to another parish.
 

backwoods
 
Logic states that just because you cannot prove something doesn't exist, it doesn't automatically follow that it doesn't exist.  Back to school for you Strummy. 

 
No Backwoods (do you have a 'real' name we could use, this seems so impersonal) - I meant exactly what I said, read it again.
 
Just because I can't prove that god doesn't exist, that doesn't make his existence any more likely. Neither does it make your assumption that he does exist any more valid.
 
 

The bottom line is this:  No belief is either right or wrong until it is proven to be one or the other at which time it ceases to be a belief.
 
My personal beliefs have evolved beyond ALL religions (including Atheism) and I think everyone will discover in their own time* that this "reality" isn't what they think, but that none should have to worry about what will happen to them.  Once this point is reached it becomes obvious that you don't need to force the beliefs that were probably brain-washed into you as a child on anyone else and arguing about it is either silly, annoying or both.  Most of the time, this can't even be discussed for the simple reason that the majority of people aren't even ready for a concept that's very foreign to the surface religions that dominate the world cultures.  I should also note that it gets even more annoying and old when people think they know what my "belief" is - when you're ready, it will be the only thing that completely makes sense and answers ALL questions.
 
So just go on and enjoy the part that you're playing in this life!
 
* Where "their own time" could actually be longer than what they currently consider a lifespan.

Politics and Religion.  Two of the biggest wastes of time and generators of conflict ever - no wonder they're against the TOS!

I get it craigb- you use a Kurzweil synthesizer right  I apologize for my disgraceful conduct in this thread and others. 
 
 

I'm afraid you misquoted there, ol pal. Pretty horrifically.

backwoods
I get it craigb- you use a Kurzweil synthesizer right  I apologize for my disgraceful conduct in this thread and others. 
 
 

I don't think your conduct has been disgraceful in any way.
 
For sure, we shouldn't really be discussing religion in here, but no one's been chucking the toys out of the pram.
 
I love talking about this sort of stuff, and I reckon we've all been pretty civilised about it.
 
It'll still get tossed into the ether once someone reports it though
 

Still slowing back out here....... nope, if you are talking to the table, to my knowledge I did not misquote. I'm just on a different wave to you yoropal.
 
thanks for not being nasty steve- I must admit it is a major fault of mine.