Sorry...this thread is moving too fast...back after dinner. Carry on.

"Are you suggesting that a predisposition for belief in god/gods is genetic in nature?"
 
I didn't say *predisposition* I said "evolutionary", and yes I was suggesting, as a possibility, that the biology of the brain and the mind/body connection that we regard as spirit or Qi may have adapted to enjoy the benefit of belief, but of course I can't prove that.
 
 
 
"I really thought you were better than that Mike."
 
Judge and jury.
 
 
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

craigb
The bottom line is this:  No belief is either right or wrong until it is proven to be one or the other at which time it ceases to be a belief.

Hmm. I don't think any religious belief (or for that matter, any intangible belief) can ever be proved wrong. But as sure as eggs is eggs I think it could be proved right. The big fellow would only have to put in an appearance.
 
What one has to decide I suppose, is what the likelihood is of something one chooses to believe in actually being true.
 

craigb
 
My personal beliefs have evolved beyond ALL religions (including Atheism) and I think everyone will discover in their own time* that this "reality" isn't what they think, but that none should have to worry about what will happen to them.

 
Come on Craig, calling atheism a religion is a ridiculous thing to say. It's the sort of thing religious apologists throw out there as a form of insult when their arguments fail.
 
I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the rest of it though
 
Without wishing to pry too much, would I be right in assuming that part of your particular belief system holds that there is such a thing as the human 'soul'? In other words, a separate entity to the physical body, and not just the consciousness that's the product of chemical and electric activity in the brain and nervous system?
 
 

It's funny how some believers will make the outrageous claims and then demand that we atheist prove that their claim is wrong. 
 
Same as if I swore to you that my dead grandfather used to be able to fly and claimed that you had to prove that wrong. If I make the claim, I have to back it up, don't I?
 
I'm pretty sure no one would accept that it's true because the ghost of the old man told it to my mother in a dream...
 

Semantics- did your grandfather ever board a plane. Same with "can god make a burrito so hot he can't eat it" sure- just let it cool down for a while 
 
It's not about literal meaning though- that's what people who don't have faith don't get. In the bible- created light on about day 1 and then about day 6 or whatever the sun. Or you got it, or you don't !!!

mike_mccue

SteveStrummerUK
"Are you suggesting that a predisposition for belief in god/gods is genetic in nature?"
 
I didn't say *predisposition* I said "evolutionary", and yes I was suggesting, as a possibility, that the biology of the brain and the mind/body connection that we regard as spirit or Qi may have adapted to enjoy the benefit of belief, but of course I can't prove that.

 

Eh? We as a species are 'predisposed' to perform certain actions and do certain things as a result of our evolution.
 
It's why we don't have to consciously think about breathing, or why we automatically recoil from a painful stimulus.
 
It could be argued that less tangible traits such as benevolence to other members of our species, and familial and romantic love are part of our genetic makeup and are inherited.
 
 

mike_mccue
 

SteveStrummerUK
 "I really thought you were better than that Mike."
 

 
Judge and jury.
 
 

 
Now you're getting it ...
 
Silence, and kneel before me .

backwoods
Semantics- did your grandfather ever board a plane. Same with "can god make a burrito so hot he can't eat it" sure- just let it cool down for a while 
 
It's not about literal meaning though- that's what people who don't have faith don't get. In the bible- created light on about day 1 and then about day 6 or whatever the sun. Or you got it, or you don't !!!

With lots of stubborn bad will, you can arrive to any result. I'm guessing that since you were able to power on a computer and log into this web site, and seem like an intelligent guy, you have the tools to understand I meant that the old man could fly by his own means. 
 
If it's not about literal meaning, then it's irrelevant and as important as one's need to fart. It could be anything. Some people feel a presence, some people believe that a certain celebrity is their soul mate, or that they were Napoleon in another life.
 
It's not us who got it or don't. The guy who is convinced that he is Napoleon doesn't get to tell who's sane and who isn't. He shouldn't be on a medical committee and shouldn't be asked his opinion about the samarium's budget. He can live is madness full out for all I care - just don't use his reflexions as a criteria when we have a decision to make.

people see the same thing differently rain:
 
how many f's?
 

 FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
   SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
   IC STUDY COMBINED WITH
   THE EXPERIENCE OF YEARS.

Lots of people get this question wrong!

"I'm sure that if you really wanted to be sure for yourself that these trials were being conducted, and being conducted truthfully, you could find a way to do so."
 
The way you have worded that statement it seems as if you are suggesting that I should go find evidence to support a stated premise. Wow.
 
 
 
 
Here are some examples that have led me to form my opinion that most lay people have to, in the absence of first hand knowledge, believe that drugs that are recommended to them by professionals are useful.
 
Counterfeit drugs:
 
http://www.safemedicines.org/2012/10/who-is-the-criminal-mastermind-behind-the-counterfeit-cancer-drug-scare-.html
 
Here is an example of a widely advertised and recommended prescription drug that was recalled once the end users started succumbing to the side effects that were not given adequate acknowledgement in the original trials:
 
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/05/briefing/2005-4090B1_04_E-FDA-TAB-C.htm
 
My point was that most people believe in that concept you called modern civilization and do not bother looking for this type of info before swallowing what their doctors recommend.
 
I believe that if I took most of the medicine my doctors recommend to me I'd probably get sick or something. I guess that's just how my brain works.
 
 
best regards,
mike

backwoods
 
It's not about literal meaning though- that's what people who don't have faith don't get.

But there are millions and millions of fundamentalists out there who do take the bible at its word. That it is the immutable word of an omnipresent and omniscient god.
 
And the irony here is that they look down on the pick 'n mix moderates who look for metaphors when it suits them (and literality when it also suits them) as not being the true believers.
 
For such an all powerful deity, he sure made a right pig's ear of explaining in his holy book exactly what he meant to say.
 
The fact that you say "It's not about literal meaning" also opens up the possibility that to understand it, we need to have (self-appointed) interpreters who are for some reason able to unlock what it all means. And these people are humans, not gods, so how can we know that they've got it right?
 
Can you imagine the operating instructions for a camera, or the manual for Sonar, being written in metaphor? I'll take literal every time.