Rain
Funny because I came this close to posting that same Weinberg quote yesterday.
So I guess that would be: -1 + 1 + 1 = 1
 

Which, as I've long suspected, proves beyond doubt the existence of Zeus.
 
Or Loki.
 
Or is it Nephthys.
 
 

 

BigBen
In all this debate, the final outcome is or should be in pursuing in finding the "truth". The only Truth is from God.......the only good can come from God. 

This premise alone should dictate you that this post doesn't belong here and that there is no point since you've elevated yourself out of any common frame of reference.
 
And I once again oppose the same irrational proposition. I alone am always right and I say that I'm right therefore proving that I am right.
 
This is as legit an argument as yours. Since this is a discussion board, I always thought that the emphasis should be put on things we can discuss, and not monolithic all-exclusive beliefs.
 
But hey, if that's what you want, I can think of millions of monolithic all-exclusive propositions. 
 
As for the rest, you might as well be praising schizophrenia over reason.

SteveStrummerUK

Rain
Funny because I came this close to posting that same Weinberg quote yesterday.
So I guess that would be: -1 + 1 + 1 = 1
 

Which, as I've long suspected, proves beyond doubt the existence of Zeus.
 
Or Loki.
 
Or is it Nephthys.
 
 

 
Actually, Zeus and greek mythology makes a whole lot more sense to me than the hebrew one and its shamelessly bastardized/recycled vulgar adaptations.
 
That being said, if I had to deal w/ Zeus believers who want to persecute people for any reason which in fact is none of their frickin business and place their religion and blind faith before simple empathy, I'd probably dislike it just as much.

BTW Paul, if you really placed Christ first (and not your need to speak about how cool your faith is), Mathew 10:13-14 would have enabled you to understand the TOS: 
 
And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
 
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
 
These are the teachings of YOUR prophet. 
 
Again, Mathew 6:5-6:
 
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."
 
I guess that's if you really place Christ first, though... Anyway, as you pointed out yourself, no one changed their mind. Which makes your pharisaical display of faith even more sterile.
 

Ben...er...you don't by any chance live in a small one room cabin in the remotest part of, say, Idaho...or maybe just your parent's basement do you? It's just that you sorta remind me of a couple of guys I know. Just curious.

PS: if I get to choose I pick Idolator...I've always liked the sound of that one. Or better yet...The Idolorator!! Yea...that's it.

PPS: it used to be "The Fornicator" and I ain't lyin when I tell ya I earned that there name fair and square...I was a mighty no holds barred fornicatin machine. But, alas, my ol fornicatin tool has succumbed to both age and the side effects of blood pressure meds...so best to move on over to The Idolorator. Just an FYI.

Mooch4056
 
Over 2000 years of that book being ridiculed, studied, debated, murdered over, scrutinized in side out. It still exists. Is there any book or writing even close to the abuse the Bible has taken? How does that book keep on going and going. Jesus said things of this world will die out but His Words will live forever. Why and how is that ? Oh yeah because He's God. 
 
 

 
Astrology has existed for longer than christianity, and it's still everywhere. So has mental illness. The hopes and wishes that are addressed by the Bible are human, and will most likely always exist, as they always did, in every culture. The fact that the Bible has been held as an answer to those needs for this long does not in any way demonstrate that it is true. People believed that the earth was flat for even longer. 
 
The fact that something cannot be disproved does not make it true. Considering how people have been kept in ignorance for most of those 2000 by those same men who imposed that faith upon them and were not even allowed to read the Bible for themselves, it's far from surprising.
 
For the longest time, people didn't think smoking was harmful. It's a good thing that some people questioned the assumption and didn't just blindly follow that tradition which had been going on for centuries.
 
Until very recently, people in North Korea really believed that their great leader was eternal... Silly uh? Well, that's exactly how I and others feel about your beliefs. Quite rightly so.
 
Anyway, it's not hard to maintain people in ignorance - in many case it's their favorite place to be. Those Koreans cried their heart out when their "god" died...
 

Mooch4056
 
Either Christianity is the Biggest hoax that one man has ever made on the world for over 2000 years or He's the real deal. 
 
I mean this would be a bigger hoax than ObamaCare and that right there is a pretty dang big one!
 
 
 

 
Breaking the TOS again. You got to love how the same people continuously think it's ok sneak one in and then have the guts to tell people that they're wrong for not letting it slide. Well, no.
 
For your information, the hebrew faith - the one your own beliefs have been artificially transplanted upon as an accomplishment of its prophecies - has been going on for longer than christianity. So christianity is not even the longest hoax. Not by a long shot.
 

Mooch4056
 
 Hey man I've read the bible since I was 7 years old and I am still learn new things from it all the time. That's pretty impressive that you've picked it up faster than me. 
 
 

 
Not at all. I read what's there, not what I hoped to find until I found it. Takes longer to force meaning in an assemblage as disparate and contradictory as the christian Bible. 
 

Mooch4056
 
I always try to keep this in mind for things like the TOS ...... 
 

 
BS, as illustrated in this very post w/ your sarcastic comment about Obamacare.
 

Mooch4056
 
I wonder if God was thinking about the Cakewalk TOS when he said those words 
 
nah .. Just kidding .....I wasn't wondering that at all 

 
I have no doubt that you'd never reconsider your position. If it took you that long to arrive where you are, anything that contradicts your faith must be discarded.
 

Mooch4056
 
I crack myself up! 

 
Under other circumstances, I'd be tempted to laugh too...
 
As always, I'm not replying to you, but AT you...

Not to mention the scores of nearly identical "messiah" stories (I.e. virgin birth, son of god made flesh, etc...) from other religions that fell by the wayside (Constantine NOT promoting them???...poor things) that PRECEDE ol JC and his bunch. In point of fact Christianity would probably have fallen by the wayside too without ol Constantine's help.

Exactly. But still - 2000 must indeed seem like a major achievement when you decide to believe that the Earth is like 6000 old.
 
Blessed are they...

And from the bottom of my atheist heart, I'll tell you this Paul: I find real beauty and something quite sublime about certain passages of the scriptures. Things to ponder. The Mathew verse I quoted above is one of them.
 
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."
 
One needs not believe in God to appreciate the admirable quality of the conviction expressed in that verse - the aspiration and the ability to forge such ideal is sublime, really. Pray in SECRET!!! Confident that God hears you and that there need to be no other witness - He will provide... 
 
That's the real "personal relation with Jesus" people keep bragging about, right there...
 
Doesn't make it any more true than the best passages of plays by Shakespeare or Racine or more enlightening than studying myths and beliefs of other cultures. Even in the most primitive forms of faith, one can find a stepping stone for reflexion, be it only to experience how others understand life. 
 

Woohoo!!!! Rain's moved onto the New Testament!!!