Tim, in pursuance of an intelligent and civilized debate, I'd like to make a few comments on what you posted.
 
Firstly, to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone believing whatever they want. My only gripe is that their beliefs should never be allowed to interfere with my life in any way. And that most definitely includes not having any of my tax dollars/pounds being used to subsidise (or worse, to promote) their beliefs. And I most definitely don't want anyone's religious beliefs to have any impact or influence on the legislative process.
 
For the life of me, I just don't get why the majority of religious folk simply don't (or more likely 'won't') understand this. I would have thought that freedom from religion is as much a basic human right as is freedom to practise one's religion.
 
 

Starise
 
 IMO the very term "Christian" itself is widely abused and misunderstood. To some folks being born into a Christian family or being baptized makes you a Christian.

 
I completely understand what you're trying to say here, but I think you'd have to acknowledge that far and away the single most influential factor in what faith (or not) a person follows, or which religion they subscribe to, is what their parents teach them when they are very young. Other factors, of course, will include where one is born, and whether or not the society one is born into permits religious belief or permits only certain specified religious 'belief'.
 
For example, what are the chances that a child born to Amish parents in Ohio will end up becoming a practising Jew, or Hindu? Or what chance is there that a child born in Israel to Jewish parents will become a devout Muslim?
 
Although "Religious Instruction" (in the UK, this was traditionally Christian in nature) as such no longer features on our schools' curricula, I honestly don't want my children taught anything about any religion in such a way that could be viewed as prosetylization in any form.
 
And I certainly don't want them taught creation "theory" instead of, or even alongside Evolution in biology class. However, I've nothing against them being taught in a Philosophy/Ethics classes that some people believe in divine creation, and think that evolution is nothing more than a conspiracy or misunderstanding to deflect from the "truth" of Intelligent Design.  Again, the distinction in how these subjects are taught may appear slight, but to me it is important.
 
My own personal conviction is that I'd like to see a world where no child is taught which religion is "correct" by anyone (including their parents), and that they should be allowed to decide for themselves once they're old enough what they want to believe in, or not , as the case may be. By all means, teach them about the beliefs of different faiths, but to force feed them only one "true" religion is tantamount to brainwashing them at best, and could be considered child abuse at worse.
 
Again, I fail to see what the problem is with any of this. 
 
 
 

Starise
 
To some people a Christian is some kind of a fundamentalist weirdo, who lives life in the extreme and expects everyone else to do the same.
 

 
To which I'd say that most fundamentalists actually believe that the so-called 'moderates' are the "weirdos" for not following their religion to the letter as outlined and specified in their scripture and holy texts.
 
If truth be told, I actually have far more 'respect' for fundamnentalists who live their lives according to the immutable word of their god, and who very selectively refuse to pick and choose which parts of their Bible/Qur'an/Tanakh to obey and which to disregard. I know I'm being incredibly naive here, but surely a book written or dictated by such a deity as one might choose to worship is either all true, or a man-made forgery?
 
 

Starise
 
God loves everyone and that includes the fine folks we have here who call themselves Atheists. I think highly of those folks too. I have never walked a mile in anyone's shoes but my own. 
 
 

 
I don't want your god to love me.
 
I don't want anyone to love me who demands that I love them back or suffer for all eternity once I die.
 
To me, that isn't love, and I fail to understand how any rational person could possibly equate it thus.

Now we're not gonna bring my "fruits" into this are we?  I got em hangin right over here.

I'm glad there are "beliefs" for people that need something to believe in.
 
I can understand them being happy and stating that their belief is helping them.
Anything much more than that and I'm ready to turn the channel.
 
 
 
 

It's very simple.
 
Either you're with Santa or against Santa.
Either you're with the Easter Bunny or against the Easter Bunny.
 
By their presents and/or droppings, you shall know them.

(Works with all sorts of other replacements like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, unicorns or "Bob" too.)

 
And what could anyone possibly find to disagree with here...
 

 

Speaking only for myself, out of respect for the TOS and the sensibilities of this forum, I do not discuss matters of faith or belief here.  I respect the freedom of each individual to make up their own minds and determine for themselves how they will think and what they will believe.  While I am comfortable discussing my beliefs with anyone who wants to talk about the subject, I have no desire to argue with anyone.  Mutual respect is key to understanding.  We don't have to agree in order to treat each other with civility and kindness.
 
I know that many people have had negative experiences with people who hold different beliefs, values, or philosophies.  For those who have been browbeaten and coerced into a token "belief" against their will, I'm sorry you were mistreated.  We should be able to talk about important questions of life, morality, and beliefs without a fight.  In my opinion, we should be able to hear one another without feeling threatened, villified, or humiliated.  I hope I do not treat anyone of a faith different from mine in that manner. 
 
It's a conversation, not a monologue.  Just as I have the right to speak my mind, so does everyone else.  If we listen to one another, give each other a chance to be heard, we can have a discussion.  Otherwise, we're just shouting at each other, as if the loudest voice will win.  It's a shame that there's been so much shouting (the reason for the TOS) that it gets in the way of a meaningful and respectful dialogue.

That guy needs a better tailor.

UbiquitousBubba
 We don't have to agree in order to treat each other with civility and kindness.
 

And that really is the catch, isn't it?
Most people know that the odds are there may be civility and kindness to a point and
then...
People have shown and will show as sure as the sun will rise that when they talk about
things they believe in very much and others state they don't agree then Kattie barr the doors.
 
It is against the TOS because people are the way they are.
There are voting booths for same good reason. Cast your vote and keep your mouth shut seems
like very smart advice to me.
 
Much different than when folks are talking about why they like that color blue....or is the pro-channel
all it's cut-out to be.
One can get to close....."hey, do ya have any naked pictures of your wife?"  !!NO!!...."do ya want some?".    Have some civility and kindness talking about that camara and lens....yeah, right.

UbiquitousBubba
Mutual respect is key to understanding.  We don't have to agree in order to treat each other with civility and kindness.

 
 
Why should I respect anyone who blows themsleves and their fellow (innocent) passengers to pieces on a crowded train in the name of their god?
 
Why should I respect anyone who willingly hands over their daughter to undergo female genital mutilation to appease their god?
 
Why should I respect anyone whose religion not just ignored, but arguably fostered an environment in which middle-aged male 'virgins' took sexual advantage of small boys and girls entrusted to their care?
 
And finally, why should I respect all the 'moderates' of various religions who are often, by their inaction, disinterest and antipathy, complicit in any number of human rights violations performed in the name of their religion?
 
To be honest with you, I do "understand" why all these things (and countless others) happen. And I certainly don't respect those who perpetrate these obscenities, nor the religions and ideologies that give them the licence to do so.
 
 

UbiquitousBubba
 
It's a conversation, not a monologue.  Just as I have the right to speak my mind, so does everyone else.  If we listen to one another, give each other a chance to be heard, we can have a discussion.  Otherwise, we're just shouting at each other, as if the loudest voice will win.  It's a shame that there's been so much shouting (the reason for the TOS) that it gets in the way of a meaningful and respectful dialogue.

 
A wonderful and laudable idea Bubba.
 
But the past 2000 years of human history tend to suggest that it hasn't happened yet, and that it's unlikely to happen any time soon.