Therein lies the fundamental difference Vintage, both AD and Slate drums are made for people who want generic out of the box sounds.
 
I'm not going to get in to a debate about what I perceive to be the rights and wrongs regarding people who don't have the time or creative ability to produce they're own sounds but it's obvious that people who don't want to spend time learning how to mix drums will prefer AD or Slate over BFD or Superior Drummer 2.
 
I prefer the latter because I love the sound and power of natural unprocessed drums and although daunting at first I'm so glad I put in the hours and learnt to do it my self.
 
Steve

I have to say also that I prefer my BFD Eco, and even Kitcore, to AD. Just not impressed with the sound.

Leadfoot
I have to say also that I prefer my BFD Eco, and even Kitcore, to AD. Just not impressed with the sound.

I agree Leadfoot, in essence the sounds in Eco are the same as BFD2, just lower sample and bit rate but still have the same warmth and depth.
 
I have to give AD a lot credit for their abundance of presets though, there are so many and so varied for a 2GB footprint that's extremely impressive. BFD3 comes with just 37 presets whereas AD has around 150 so for those that don't know, or don't want to know how to mix drums I'd say that a massive plus but I think it's very overpriced in comparison to it's more heavyweight opposition.
 
Steve

Leadfoot
 and even Kitcore, to AD..

I do not have Kitcore installed at the moment. It used to be my goto. Its really sad development seems to have been abandoned when Submersible sold to Somoma Wire works. Its the Sampletank of the drum VST world, very good sounds for their time but not touched for years, still 32 bit and flaky via bridges.
 
It has great Midi loops from the likes of Alan White, Terry Bossio, Matt Sorum, Sly Dunbar and a host of other "names" but they are in a proprietary format so you need to run Kitcore to drag them into a track.
hope.
I did see something about a new version of Drumcore. Maybe there is hope.

Glyn Barnes

Leadfoot
and even Kitcore, to AD..

I do not have Kitcore installed at the moment. It used to be my goto. Its really sad development seems to have been abandoned when Submersible sold to Somoma Wire works. Its the Sampletank of the drum VST world, very good sounds for their time but not touched for years, still 32 bit and flaky via bridges. It has great Midi loops from the likes of Alan White, Terry Bossio, Matt Sorum, Sly Dunbar and a host of other "names" but they are in a proprietary format so you need to run Kitcore to drag them into a track.hope.I did see something about a new version of Drumcore. Maybe there is hope.

I agree. I don't know why Sonoma bought Submersible out just to shelf Drumcore/Kitcore. I love my Matt Cameron kitpack. I would love to see a new 64bit version of Drumcore released, but it's been so long. I'm wondering if most people haven't moved on, and will even be interested.

twaddle
Therein lies the fundamental difference Vintage, both AD and Slate drums are made for people who want generic out of the box sounds.
 
I'm not going to get in to a debate about what I perceive to be the rights and wrongs regarding people who don't have the time or creative ability to produce they're own sounds but it's obvious that people who don't want to spend time learning how to mix drums will prefer AD or Slate over BFD or Superior Drummer 2.
 
I prefer the latter because I love the sound and power of natural unprocessed drums and although daunting at first I'm so glad I put in the hours and learnt to do it my self.
 
Steve

First of all AD is easily as programmable as BFD if not more so.   Second creative ability and time are two completely different things.  Non professionals such as yourself may have plenty of time to tweak drum mixes.  The most creative professional composers will not have that luxury because people pay them to be creative and they have deadlines.  So your implication that only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn drum mixing is naive at best.  Natural, unprocessed drums work for some styles and processed drums work for other styles.  I use BFD when it sounds best, AD when it sounds best, SDD when it sounds best, KitCore or Battery when they are the best choice.  If I'm working on a piece that needs unprocessed acoustic drums I can get equal results with BFD3, AD or SDD.  It's all about context.  Use what works for you.
 

First of all AD is easily as programmable as BFD if not more so.

 
Where did I suggest otherwise ? Of course AD is easier to program since its has far fewer features.
 

Second creative ability and time are two completely different things.  Non professionals such as yourself may have plenty of time to tweak drum mixes.  The most creative professional composers will not have that luxury because people pay them to be creative and they have deadlines.

 
I agree and understand that those who are being paid and have time constraints may not have the time that I and so many other home enthusiasts have although if they are as you say "professional" they should have a pretty good idea how to mix drums anyway and would surely prefer to have more control.
I don't call my self professional mostly on account of the fact that the definition of professional means, "being paid" but I certainly don't believe that those who are making money are any more creative than me, productive maybe but not creative. The fact that music industry contracts require musicians to write and produce x amount of albums or projects per year is one of the reasons why so much music is just so bad.
 
I'd be curious to know just how many sonar users are home enthusiasts and musicians trying to do it on their own with no record labels, how many are film scorers and all other manner of creative arts for which sonar and drums can be used.
My guess is around half would be non paid bedroom musicians who make music for the love of it and for whom time isn't really such an issue.
 

So your implication that only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn drum mixing is naive at best.

 
I don't think I said that at all. I certainly didn't say or even suggest it was, "only people with no creativity or who are too lazy to learn" more that there are in my view, far too many people who fit very easily in to that catagory and that's not the same.
 
As I said, I wasn't looking for a debate on what I think are the rights and wrongs of those who, "do" fit in to that catagory, nor was I intending to denigrate them but obviously I have an opinion. Suffice to say my preference is for "originality" and to me that means, NOT using generic presets but I totally understand why people do and of course they can sound great too.
But for me it's only a stones throw from using other peoples loops or samples and whilst you can do it creatively it's not truly creative because it's not original and that's always been my bible. I struggle really hard to keep my music as original as I can and for that and a few reasons I never use midi loops or presets. It may well be that my music would be improved if I did but that's just me.
 
 

Natural, unprocessed drums work for some styles and processed drums work for other styles.

 
We're talking raw unprocessed samples here, I do an awful lot of processing and mashing up of my drums in BFD2 & 3 and rarely use just raw vanilla drums. Of course the way they're processed matters and can be what determines their genre too so processing is essential in that respect.
 

I use BFD when it sounds best, AD when it sounds best, SDD when it sounds best, KitCore or Battery when they are the best choice.  If I'm working on a piece that needs unprocessed acoustic drums I can get equal results with BFD3, AD or SDD.  It's all about context.

 
I didn't think you owned any BFD products ?
 

Use what works for you.

 
Yeah thanks
 
 
Steve
 

twaddle
 
I didn't think you owned any BFD products ?

 
I've had BFD2 for quite a while but I only use it for the percussion and Zilijian libraries since I never liked the kits very much. I much prefer SSD and AD.   I do like the kits in BFD3 and will no doubt use them.
 

twaddleYeah thanks
 
Steve
 

 
No problem. Glad to help.

To the OP:  I've had BFD3 for about a week and have had a few problems in Cubase 7.06.  If I load and unload a lot of kits it sometimes will lock up and sometimes bring Cubase down.  I had this problem with BFD2 also.  Yesterday it locked up after I did a "Remove unused channels" command in the mixer.  It was a big project with 3 instances of BFD3 but I've got plenty of RAM.  Mostly it's been good and I really like the new kits.  I'll log a support ticket when I get some time.  Their support is excellent. 

vintagevibe
To the OP:  I've had BFD3 for about a week and have had a few problems in Cubase 7.06.  If I load and unload a lot of kits it sometimes will lock up and sometimes bring Cubase down.  I had this problem with BFD2 also.  Yesterday it locked up after I did a "Remove unused channels" command in the mixer.  It was a big project with 3 instances of BFD3 but I've got plenty of RAM.  Mostly it's been good and I really like the new kits.  I'll log a support ticket when I get some time.  Their support is excellent. 

When you say this happened with BFD2  we're you using more than one instance of BFD2 as well ?
I have ran two instances before in sonar quire happily but not for any serious projects but fxpansion don't recommend running more than one instance of BFD2 and although there's no official word as to whether this is advisable with BFD3 I'm guessing it might still be the case. maybe it was one of your posts I read on the BFD3 forum but I had read of people having some issues with Cubase.
 
I haven't tried running more than one instance of BFD3 but it makes sense not to run more than one particularly for people with less ram as they'll soon run into problems and although BFD3 has a lower ram usage some kits, "the new PS kits for example" will use a lot more ram than older kits.
 
Steve