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  • Orange Tree Samples GROUP BUY! [NOW AT 50% OFF & OVER 900 PEOPLE!!!] (p.2)
2013/09/18 15:47:24
edrummist
@bit I consult to OTS, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt if you like, but I am a sample user and that's how my relationship with Greg/OTS began, as a customer who is a huge fan. Evolution Electric Bass - Rick sets a new standard for other devs to catch up with, just like Jaco did a couple of years ago. Check out the videos and ask current users.

One of my issues with sampled bass guitars (and ftr, my other favorite bass guitar sample dev has been Scarbee), is that if you play the same note for 8ths for a bar or two, like bands like Snow Patrol, Cold Play and many metal bands often do, there's just not enough round robins in almost every KONTAKT bass library on the market to keep it from sounding fake. So, for a long time I have been bending Greg's ear about addressing this shortcoming. And the Rick library nails this better than any library I know of (it has It has 32x round-robin and 3 morphing velocity layers), plus it has brilliant scripting and I LOVE THE PRESETS (those are a big deal to me, although I realize they're not as big of a deal to hardcore tweakers; I really value ease of use and the ability to quickly understand how to play an instrument and get great sounds -- I prefer to write, play and produce music than tweak -- although I realize there's a ton of options here for tweakers, it's just not my thing personally). This library, quite literally, sets a new standard for other sample devs to catch up with in terms of bass guitar libraries. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXMYHxGaT6w    
2013/09/18 17:13:21
bitflipper
Actually, I hate round-robins. At least as implemented in most of the libraries I have. If they're too dissimilar, you get a different performance every time, making it harder to mix. I've occasionally had to modify sample libraries because note volumes were not consistent. With round-robins that becomes an especially tedious process. Conversely, if the round-robins are too similar, you're just wasting RAM. 
 
32x round-robins would normally not be a selling point for me. If a bass player couldn't play the same note the same way more than 1 in 32 times in a row I'd be suggesting we use a sample library instead.
However, it would seem (based on the demos) that Greg's managed to find that delicate balance between annoying randomness and boring sameness. 
2013/09/18 18:26:36
edrummist
@bit I actually agree with what you're saying when it comes to certain developers who poorly execute round robins, but I haven't found that is the case any of Orange Tree Samples' libraries (or Scarbee's libraries, ftr) . 

But I do have libraries with the kinds of problems that you're describing. Heck, I have an older guitar library from another very well known and respected long time sample developer where he or someone else coughs near the end of one of the samples making it completely unusable. I have a bunch of guitar/bass libraries from a certain guitar/bass KONTAKT developer -- who seems to have disappeared in the last year or so -- with consistently poorly executed round robins that have a slew of problems including bad tuning. I'm also familiar with a drum library that features a sample where the drummer yelps before a the drum hit (a snare; he yelps before the hit on the main sample, but not on the round robin). IMO, I would not want virtually any kind of sample library without round robins today, especially for guitar, bass, strings, drums and percussion. But if it's not done well, of course, that's a major problem. But if you just don't like round robins, you always have the option to turn them off. 
2013/09/18 19:50:39
rtucker55
Only 2 away from 20% off!
2013/09/18 20:49:46
rtucker55
We've reached the 20% off tier and heading towards the 30% off tier!!!
2013/09/18 20:54:32
edrummist
The Group Buy is now at 51 people -- the 20% discount level -- only several hours after the sale launched!
 
I strongly suspect this Group Buy is going to reach the maximum discount level (50% off @ 250 participants) pretty fast. Here's the link for anyone looking to join the Group Buy: 
http://www.orangetreesamples.com/gb/
2013/09/18 22:45:21
Glyn Barnes
There will be some good deals here. I have all the guitar and bass libraries except Pear. I may go for Passion Flute as it would fill a hole, got lots of flute sounds but not that aggressive rock flute sound.
2013/09/18 23:12:43
bitflipper
edrummist
...I have an older guitar library from another very well known and respected long time sample developer where he or someone else coughs near the end of one of the samples making it completely unusable. 



I have one from a well-respected developer that has "beam me up, Scottie!" buried in a guitar sample. I assumed it was a sort of watermark.
2013/09/18 23:57:26
gregjazz
bitflipper
Actually, I hate round-robins. At least as implemented in most of the libraries I have. If they're too dissimilar, you get a different performance every time, making it harder to mix. I've occasionally had to modify sample libraries because note volumes were not consistent. With round-robins that becomes an especially tedious process. Conversely, if the round-robins are too similar, you're just wasting RAM.

 
I know exactly what you mean--there's nothing worse than playing and having a random round-robin sample stick out like a sore thumb. When recording the round-robin samples for EEB Rick, I played everything as consistently and naturally as possible.
 
Depending on how much memory you want to allot to EEB Rick, you can set different round-robin amounts. Personally, I usually keep it at 4x round-robin, and then boost the setting to the full 32x right before rendering.
 
Another issue you touched on is the unpredictability of round-robin. It can be a nuisance having to render a track several times until you get *just* the right round-robin samples happening in the right places. That's why in EEB Rick, the round-robin automatically resets after a second or so of silence just to keep things more predictable. And just in case, there's also a round-robin reset key that you can press to manually reset the round-robin.
2013/09/19 00:47:58
cecelius2
I am interested in Strawberry Electric and Acoustic Steel Strings, but have a question for you who own the Acoustic Steel.  Does it have a "strummer" or a strumming step sequencer like the one in the Strawberry Electric?  I can't find reference or videos that show strumming the Acoustic.
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