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  • MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years (p.3)
2013/10/08 20:19:00
The Maillard Reaction
Thanks for that Jonbouy.
 
I was stumbling with the idea that almost all the music I have recorded of myself is all on a MIDI grid and I enjoy working to the grid. So it seemed unlikely to me I would sneer at myself as well as other who share that enjoyment. :-)
 
I really am just hoping to find it easier to help my guests who work without any awareness of a grid.
 
I'd certainly welcome any suggestions on your part.
 
For example; I have a pianist that comes over and plays and sings with flair. I do record his playing as MIDI. It would be awesome if I could find a time effective way to add value to his performance by orchestrating extra instruments. I do so with live play of drums and bass but I don't have the keyboard chops to exploit samplers and synths as efficiently as lots of other people.
 
I do use the various mapping tools that I know of and if you know of other ways I'd gladly try to learn them.
 
 
all the best,
mike
2013/10/08 20:31:34
craigb
I don't know Jeff, I can see them eventually enhancing the specs to allow for more granularity.  Maybe all the way to 1,024 resolutions instead of 128.  My favorite use of MIDI is when they have fireworks choreographed using it.
2013/10/09 09:44:09
Jonbouy
dmbaer
mike_mccue
 
I get the impression that the latest Cubase version has some enhanced tools for this. I also recall that in the past that our forum user dmbaer mentioned he was developing a free standing tool for this purpose.



I'm just learning Cubase and am nowhere close to expert level, but I don't believe Cubase has a huge lead on SONAR.  The tempo editor (tempo view) is a bit more user friendly and more consistent with other Cubase editors, and Cubase has a very nice feature where you can disable the tempo map and play back at whatever fixed tempo you wish (great for practice or for adding parts too difficult to play in real time).  But it does not have anything (that I've discovered anyway) that assists in mapping a conductor click track to a tempo map that's more advanced than anything in SONAR, which is Fit to Improv.
 
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
 
    http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
 
We're in the process of moving to a better host for the magazine, so the link may change in a few days.  I'll try to remember to update it when that happens.




This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'.
 
I've found once the performance is under the conductors control it's really easy to either scale down the generated tempo map or even remove it altogether to make everything strict tempo before applying more subtle, less stuttery tempo transitions than those caused by my fat fingers when laying down the conductor track.
 
This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids.
 
Thanks David.
2013/10/09 09:52:15
The Maillard Reaction
 
Hi Jeff,
 I am just finishing listening to the 1-1/2 hour YouTube link.
 
 It was wonderful to hear that diverse collection of guys speak so thoughtfully about MIDI.
 
 best regards,
mike
2013/10/09 13:39:15
dmbaer
Jonbouy
dmbaer
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
 
    http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
 


This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'.
 
This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids.
 
Thanks David.



Thank you, JB, for the kind words.  I wrote this software for two reasons.  One, it was something I really needed for my own purposes.  Two, I wanted to demonstrate how simple an idea this approach is and perhaps motivate some DAW developers to put a similar function directly in their products.  So far, goal one has been achieved.  :-)
 
Seriously though, I can't for the life of me figure out why not a single DAW has a feature along these lines.  It's relatively easy code-wise.
2013/10/09 13:52:04
The Maillard Reaction
David,
 I think you should tack on a free reverb, and maybe a sample pack if you want people to take your app seriously.
 
 
 
 
 
 ;-)
2013/10/09 14:00:49
dmbaer
mike_mccue
David,
 I think you should tack on a free reverb, and maybe a sample pack if you want people to take your app seriously.
 
 ;-)



No, to get it taken seriously, I suspect I need to release Maestrolizer Mobile for iPhone.  :-)
2013/10/09 14:08:54
Jonbouy
dmbaer
Jonbouy
dmbaer
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
 
    http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
 


This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'.
 
This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids.
 
Thanks David.



Thank you, JB, for the kind words.  I wrote this software for two reasons.  One, it was something I really needed for my own purposes.  Two, I wanted to demonstrate how simple an idea this approach is and perhaps motivate some DAW developers to put a similar function directly in their products.  So far, goal one has been achieved.  :-)
 
Seriously though, I can't for the life of me figure out why not a single DAW has a feature along these lines.  It's relatively easy code-wise.




It's so much easier than trying to get a match for some free-form audio (or midi for that matter) via the tempo map.
 
I've tried getting matches for some free played audio and midi and have been successful on both occasions on the first run-through just by counting to 4 compared to the painstaking hours spent trying to get a tempo map to conform it's a breeze provided I get my count right.
 
I've used some things that offer a tap to tempo from the keyboard but because they are linked to the playback tempo and use the computer keyboard I've never had much success with them.
 
This though is simple and works like a charm I can see myself using it often, and the plus side due to the fact it isn't built into a DAW it works with whatever DAW I happen to be using at the time.
2013/10/11 17:01:25
dmbaer
Jonbouy
I've used some things that offer a tap to tempo from the keyboard but because they are linked to the playback tempo and use the computer keyboard I've never had much success with them.
 
This though is simple and works like a charm I can see myself using it often, and the plus side due to the fact it isn't built into a DAW it works with whatever DAW I happen to be using at the time.


 
Until a couple of hours ago, I didn't think this capability existed in any DAW.  This morning I was reading through some old issues of SoundOnSound, checking out the Cubase column.  I came across one installment talking about tempo and a function called "Merge Tempo From Tapping".  The "taps" in this case are MIDI note events, not mouse clicks, and according to the documentation you can select the duration: 1/2 notes, 1/4 notes, "etc.".  What does "etc." mean?  The documentation doesn't say if it allows eighth notes or tuples of any kind (there's not even a picture of the dialog box that comes up when invoking the function).  In fact, this feature occupies only a meager half page in the manual.  The main purpose seems to be to allow matching previously recorded audio to a tempo track, but presumably you could use it to "conduct" to a track you hear in your mind that you want to apply to quantized or step entered MIDI.
 
The fact that so little attention is paid to this in the manual sort of hints at how little importance most DAW designers relegate to this function.  There is no discussion, for example, of whether or not you can use this feature to define a tempo track for a limited range of measures in a piece or how to start the tempo mapping at other than the beginning of a piece.
 
Nevertheless, this appears at first glance to be very much along the lines of the solution I arrived at ... a bit of experimentation is in order to see what's really there.  But it does look close.  I dearly wish that Cakewalk would take a close look and use Cubase as a guideline in determining how SONAR could (should!) be modernized tempo-wise.
2013/10/12 15:27:08
Moshkiae
spacey
If the polyphonic pickup for guitars and the midi processing wasn't so sloppy
and somebody besides Drums On Demand would offer great selections of
.wav drum parts I could easily erase midi editing issues in my world.
Editing .wav files can be tricky but I'd rather deal with them than midi.
 
I was excited about midi guitar ( a long time ago) but now it's just crap I have
to deal with, or do without due to limitations of controlling the signal with a guitar.
... 


You ought to send that comment/question to what's his name in 10CC that created the original "gizmo" way back when. I bet you he would have something to say about it.
 
But I don't think that "midi" was created to have you do your music on it. Wasn't that supposed to be done in a DAW, not in Midi?
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