Hi Guys,
 
I'm putting together the next shopping list and it looks like a significant investment in both WAVES and UAD-2. 
 
However, I do have some questions before I commit ...

1. I read lots of positive things, so can anyone share some troubles to expect or pitfalls to be aware of? I reckon I'm being over-cautious and shouldn't worry too much when buying big name products, yet I don't want to put a very stable Sonar X2a system at risk ...
2. Downsides of the UAD satellite system vs the PCI?
3. Which plugs from WAVES and UAD-2 you wouldn't want to miss ... as opposed to which did you buy and would not buy again (maybe that helps streamlining the investment)

 
Your input is much appreciated
 
Rob
 
 
 
 

Rob
I have some old Waves stuff - biggest problem for me has always been Waves themselves and of course the dreaded WUP (or whatever they call it now) This is a yearly payment you MUST make or no support. I stopped buying their stuff years ago so it may be worth checking the current situation with regards to this - personally I cannot believe they would / could continue treat their customers with such utter contempt so things may have changed!
UAD - always found them a very good company to deal with and love their products - I do not have a satellite system so can't comment on this but some of my favorite plugs are
1176
Space Echo
Distressor
Roland Chorus x 2
Fairchild
Neve EQs
All the SPL stuff
 
Cheers
Nigel
 
 
 

For years I avoided Waves stuff due to my no-dongle policy, all the while feeling left out of the party. So when they abandoned Pace I immediately picked up a few plugins. Big letdown; nothing I'd bought from Waves was any better than comparable plugins I already owned. The Waves mystique turned out to be just that.
 
Then one day I opened a project that had some Waves stuff in it, and all the Waves plugins refused to run, complaining that I had no license for them. I wanted to ask the vendor why that had happened, but guess what? You cannot even email them a question unless you've purchased the WUP. Zero support. No other software vendor I know of, music-related or otherwise, would refuse to tell you why their product failed unless you first paid for that information.
 
Fortunately I was able to restore the licenses (which requires an internet connection, possibly a problem for folks with dedicated DAWs). Waves say they only allow you to recover licenses once a year. Fortunately, that wasn't true because a month later, it happened again. Out of the blue, the plugins refused to work. This has happened three times now. Not for a few months, though, because I simply don't use Waves products in new projects anymore.
 
Waves products may refuse to run if you disable your network adaptor or change out your motherboard (neither of which applied to my situation, though). This crucial information is not included in those products' bundled documentation, nor are any other details of their convoluted copy-protection scheme. Making sure they get paid is obviously a much higher engineering priority than product reliability.
 
I have no complaints about Waves' product quality. Except for a few weird UI issues, they are mostly rock-solid, but then so are most of the better plugins from other quality developers. A decade or more ago, Waves represented the state of the art, but they are no longer in a class by themselves. Today we have a plethora of alternatives for bread 'n butter plugins, so there's no longer any need to put up with Waves' B.S.

I read lots of positive things, so can anyone share some troubles to expect or pitfalls to be aware of? I reckon I'm being over-cautious and shouldn't worry too much when buying big name products, yet I don't want to put a very stable Sonar X2a system at risk ...
 
I use (2) PCIe cards (QUAD & SOLO) and an Apollo QUAD with SONAR X2a without any issues. Cake worked with UA many years ago to get the UAD plug-ins working stable and efficiently with SONAR.  You do need to enable the "Extra Buffers" option in UAD Control Panel for SONAR use. Other than that, it is pretty much plug and play. I do recommend installing the mono (m) versions (optional during install), as using those on mono tracks instead of the standard versions will reduce DSP usage per plug-in instance.
 
Downsides of the UAD satellite system vs the PCI?
 
The PCIe versions will always outperform FW. The only advantage to the Satellite is portability. When using FW (Satellite) you lose the LiveTrack mode option and the plug-in buffer is constrained to 512 samples latency per plug-in instance and you have to be mindful of buffering issues when using FW. If you have a choice go with the PCIe versions.
 
Which plugs from WAVES and UAD-2 you wouldn't want to miss ... as opposed to which did you buy and would not buy again (maybe that helps streamlining the investment)
 
A few off the top of my head:
Ampex ATR-102
Studer A800
LA2A Collection ($149 upgrade)
1176 Collection ($149 upgrade)
Pultec EQ Collection ($149 upgrade)
FATSO Bundle
EMT-140
EMT-250
Neve 33609
Fairchild 670
Helios 69 EQ
dbx 160
Cooper Time Cube
Roland RE-201
 
As far as which plug-ins to choose, it depends on your needs. You really can't go wrong with most any UAD plug-in. UA has a nice promo going on right now when purchasing UAD cards/devices (SOLO, DUO, QUAD, OCTO). Depending on which one you get you receive free plug-ins during registration.
 
http://www.uaudio.com/promotions.html
 
Also, when you register, you are given the option to purchase additional plug-ins for a low price (any 3 plug-ins for $399 for example).
 
https://www.uaudio.com/my/systems/specialoffer
 
You can pick up a new QUAD PCIe card for around $849 (free shipping)  if you shop round. Subtract the value of the free plug-in promo ($697 value) and the additional standard $50 plug-in coupon included with every UAD hardware purchase and the QUAD card essentially costs $102 bucks net. Go ahead and take advantage of the "any 3 plug-ins for $399" offer during card registration and you can get up to $1047 worth of plug-ins for even more savings. If you play your cards right and choose the high end UAD plug-ins ($299 & up) you can save a bundle!
 
Good luck,
 
Billy Buck
 
 

In the last few years WAVES has completely changed their image.  And their copy protection scheme which, while being similar to the iLok system, DOES NOT use an iLok and is proprietary to WAVES.  They seem much more customer friendly and support has much improved.  They are constantly heavily discounting from their old sky high pricing structure and are continuing to release new, top shelf and innovative plugs. 
 
UAD, on the other hand, while always being a friendly bunch to work with and a purveyor of top notch plugs, has, to my mind, stagnated in both a mindset and pricing structure from their heyday as the top dog of the plug in world.  Most of their newer exclusive to UA offerings are IMHO fairly pedestrian and they seem to favor simply modeling plugs you can already get from other companies (and better ones at that).  Their prices are still sky high and their sales are few and the big discounts are usually just on their oldest, outdated plugs.  Plus, don't forget the most expensive part of the initial UAD experience...the dongle.  Why UAD hasn't gone native yet is a mystery to me.  But what do I know?
 
I own many plugs from both companies.  But could I have a do over as of today I'd forego UAD in favor of other great offerings at lower price points from other vendors (like FabFilter, for instance). 
 
YMMV.
 

Billy and Bajan have given you some good advice about UAD ... with the current promo, now is a good time to get new UAD hardware. 
 
A few other UAD plugins that I've been impressed with:
 
Millienia EQ - very rich and smooth with awesome low-end control
Ocean Way - most convincing room sounds I've heard
Manley MP - great for shaping sounds, very useful on single tracks as well as 2bus
Shadow Hills compressor - subtly adds a polish to full mixes when used sparingly
API EQs - sound just like the real thing!
EP-34 Tape Delay - so silky-smooth
 
UAD plugs are expensive, so it's best to demo them before deciding what to buy.  The demo scheme is cool, though -- you can turn on any plugins in a 2-week demo mode at any time, and when you make a purchase, everything is reset so you can start more demos.  You could theoretically keep using things in demo mode indefinitely, as long as you buy something every two weeks.  That might get expensive, though. 
 
As for Waves, they do have some plugins that I like a lot, including the new RS56 EQ, the H-delay, the Vocal and Bass riders, and the SSL and REDD console emus.  But their controls tend to be jumpy, not smooth like other plugins.  This may just be a quirk of my setup, though.   You can also demo all their plugins, so again, try before you buy.  Have fun!
 
Cheers,
Eddie
 

yorolpal
In the last few years WAVES has completely changed their image.  And their copy protection scheme which, while being similar to the iLok system, DOES NOT use an iLok and is proprietary to WAVES.  They seem much more customer friendly and support has much improved.  They are constantly heavily discounting from their old sky high pricing structure and are continuing to release new, top shelf and innovative plugs. 
 
UAD, on the other hand, while always being a friendly bunch to work with and a purveyor of top notch plugs, has, to my mind, stagnated in both a mindset and pricing structure from their heyday as the top dog of the plug in world.  Most of their newer exclusive to UA offerings are IMHO fairly pedestrian and they seem to favor simply modeling plugs you can already get from other companies (and better ones at that).  Their prices are still sky high and their sales are few and the big discounts are usually just on their oldest, outdated plugs.  Plus, don't forget the most expensive part of the initial UAD experience...the dongle.  Why UAD hasn't gone native yet is a mystery to me.  But what do I know?
 
I own many plugs from both companies.  But could I have a do over as of today I'd forego UAD in favor of other great offerings at lower price points from other vendors (like FabFilter, for instance). 
 
YMMV.
 

Pretty much +1 on dat MyOlPal

yorolpal
Most of their newer exclusive to UA offerings are IMHO fairly pedestrian and they seem to favor simply modeling plugs you can already get from other companies (and better ones at that). 

 
Eh, I find this puzzling.  Most of the plugs I listed above have no equivalent from other vendors, and if they do, the UAD versions are MUCH superior to my ears.  For instance, I never really liked the Waves API EQs, but the UADs rock my world.  YMMV, indeed.  Welp, I guess the only way to decide for oneself is to demo them! 
 
Cheers,
Eddie
 
 
 

That's what makes a horse race Eddie, ol pal.  While there are a handful of my UADs I could not live without, I find that most of my extensive list of UA plugs never get used anymore.  I much prefer other stuff from other vendors.  I am planning on demoing the Ocean Way plug as it looks interesting to me.  And I'm sure I'd love the Shadow Hills as well.  But this rash of putting out plugs that are already out by other top tier folks at prices that are not at all competitive seems counter-intuitive.  Plus, while I think this is probably a good thing, they are now simply "updating" older plugs and charging top dollar for that as well.  Weren't they accurately modeled to begin with??  Don't get me too wrong though...I still think UA makes great stuff...on occasion.  But considering the cost of the plugs and the cost of entry to the system (i.e. the card(s) I'd now pursue other options if I could have a do over. 
 
PS: I like WAVES more than you too.  Go figure:-)
 
 

yorolpal
Plus, while I think this is probably a good thing, they are now simply "updating" older plugs and charging top dollar for that as well.  Weren't they accurately modeled to begin with?? 

Now, now, ol pal.  You know the original versions of these came out a long time ago, and technology has advanced a lot since then.  (Why do I have deja vu just now ... oh yeah, you said the same thang in defense of your new Ivory pianner the other day ... hee hee!).
 
Anyhoo, the updates of the 1176, LA2A, and Pultec are well worth the $150/each upgrade cost, IMHO.  To me, they are clearly the best plugins of their type.  I suspect their Fairchild will be updated soon as well ... that should be interesting.
 
If you do get around to demoing the Ocean Way, I have two suggestions for you.  Try it in a standard reverb bus channel in one of its drum settings, sending pieces of a drum kit to it.  See how it compares to other room-type verbs.  Then send a DI electric guitar thru your favorite amp sim, bypassing its cab, then going straight into the OWS in guitar cab mode.  Enjoy!
 
Cheers,
Eddie