Is Miley Cyrus manipulating the industry or is the industry manipulating her?  If it's the former then Miley appears to be the one in control and she is an adult after all, if still young.  If it's the latter, then Sinead is right - IMO of course.
 
Not sure about the argument about parental control.  Firstly I completely respect all of the points being made here - especially yours Danny; and I agree that the parents should be setting the rules and boundaries.  Yes there are much bigger influences out there as Danny points out, nevertheless Miley is part of the media wave that avalanches us and tells the kids that certain types of behaviour are acceptable (and they'll see this stuff with or without parental controls).  The kids can easily be misled despite best efforts so I tend to think that what Miley is doing is wrong.  She is a role model whether she acknowledges it or not and she is going to influence a lot of young people out there, and not for the better.  I'm not sure if it's something she's considered.
 
I so agree with Danny about kids becoming parents too young.  I see them with their pushchairs all the time - "babies with babies" I call it.  What chance have they got of bringing their kids up well?  That's not to say that some of them won't do it extremely well, just that I think that a lot of them will be creating the next generation of dysfunctional adults.  But how did they get in this situation in the first place?  I think that the "media avalanche" has a lot to do with it.  When there are so many sex-is-best images out there, are we surprised that there are so many teen pregnancies?  I think Miley is part of that.
 
Just want to say that I don't want to be stepping on any toes here and all of the above is just my opinion and I'm not trying to be confrontational.  I do think this is a really interesting subject and something it's important to see debated.

Amanda Palmer has her own views on this and writes an open letter to Sinead which also make interesting reading:-
 
 http://amandapalmer.tumblr.com/post/63011904833/oltosoc
 

This is simply my 2 cents.  Nothing I say will change the lives of those stars, and Miley Cyrus will do what she wants to do.
 
 
I am the father of 2 girls.  As they were growing up, they liked to watch the kind of movies girls like to watch and listen to the music that other girls of their ages were listening to.
 
Among the artists and stars of the day were Lindsey Lohan who stared in a few movies including "The Parent Trap" which my girls loved..... and Brittany Spears who also started as a Disney star. The girls had a poster on their bedroom wall of Brittany Spears looking totally wholesome in her early singing career days. They loved putting on Brittany's CD's and singing along..... they knew all the words to every song.
 
We all know the story of both these girl's lives, how they self destructed to arrive in rehab and bankruptcy and the "ash heap" of stardom to where they are now. Hannah Montana was a little later in their lives..... they were in their teen years when Hannah was starting her career in TV and music. There is probably a Hannah Montana CD in their old CD collection somewhere. Due to a few factors, Hannah never became a household name around here. They did watch a few shows on TV and heard her music, but I really don't recall it being a big thing.
 
What my wife and I decided to do was not so much to prohibit our girls from listen to, and watching these "role models" but we opted to set down and talk to our girls and ask them what they thought about what Lindsey and Brittany were doing, and let them make the decision along with our guidance and recommendations. Most often, our girls chose the correct path. As the songs got more risque, we would steer our girls away from Brittany and offer a better option, a more wholesome choice and it was not too often that the girls would fuss about that.  As a result, they learned about other musicians, and their love for music was expanded.
 
We had quite a few very interesting discussions surrounding the various exploits of these 2 self destructing stars..... the endless line of boyfriends, the car wrecks, the drug rehabs stints, and so much more. We would ask them where they thought Brittany and Lindsey were going wrong. We'd ask them if Brittany and Lindsey were being good role models. Our girls were thinking for themselves and learning with our discussions, removed from the peer pressure of their friends. And yes, we even had a few discussions which included their girl friends because quite often they would have sleepovers and that's when they watched the movies and played the CD's..... We wanted to be involved in their lives and be parents... moms and dads who were there for them. And we wanted them to know and understand that as well.
 
I guess all of that to say, hands on parenting, being involved in the lives of your children, is without a doubt, the single most important job and responsibility of a parent.
 
Now my girls are 19 and 21 and out on their own. We and they, know that my wife and I will talk about any topic with them..... no matter what, and will do it in a respectful manner. They learned this fact growing up, in the discussions we had with them. They call me from time to time to ask advice. I offer my thoughts and leave the final decision up to them with no guilt trips. They speak on a daily basis with my wife about "girl things".... shopping trips, decorating ideas, life in general.... I hear laughing and giggling and hope I'm not the topic of discussion.
 
 
That's how it is supposed to be.

drewfx1
...
 But thanks to Miley's tongue (and other parts), she can get endless free publicity!
 ...
 Or am I too cynical? 
...

And you don't by posting here to show off your musical talents?
 
That's not nice ... judging your own peers and artists!
 
Miley is the one that said something, and as Sinead said, the media starting ringing her phone off the hook!
 
There is a side of the business, that is sad, and often ignored, and it is that same that Sinead mentions. Of course, none of us would say/do anything, if it was Karyn, MamaBear or Julibee, but we have to say it if it is someone else that is out of our reach.
 
This is HER choice. And you and I have to right no judge or choose it for her. The fact that she is laughing and enjoying it ... is about her and for her to deal with. THIS IS HER RIGHT as a person, and be it lewd or not, IS NOT AN ISSUE ... with the only concern, being ... that it won't work ... if she doesn't put out with her own lover/relation! 
 
As long as you are honest with yourself about all this, I don't think it's an issue ... but the minute that she is not the funny/fun/exciting/allthewords girl to her relation, then the reality changes ... and her public personna takes a hit!
 
THAT IS HER CHOICE.
 
Please stop judging women for what they do, specially in this area. It doesn't matter one iota to me if she does this or some porno ... heck, it worked for a few of them, and they don't seem to be complaining.
 
Note: If all it is, is a record company thing, I would imagine that dad and mom know a thing or two about that and put a stop to it ... 18 or not!

You have a great big heart Danny, and I completely agree with most of your statements.......especially where parents (young & even old) need to take complete resonsibility for their children and their proper upbringing. I see it as all these things need to be first taught at home. It's unreasonable to expect our children to be little angels outside the home, when they're allowed to be little devils inside....right?). Without having the proper discipline, structure, order, and most of all when all of this is done out of the love for our children/family, it will directly impact on our children's understanding in accepting the right attitude/behaviour/thinking etc....My wife & I decided on doing this even before we got married, and completely agreed that the welfare of the family came before any of our personal needs. 
 
Strictly my opinion (for the little it's worth): Although Miley is not breaking any laws, supporting the system, and is now an "adult", her so called known talent is apparently in the music business and seems to be popular for that. I believe (if she's as good as they say) she could easily carry her weight with this talent and not need to resort to "prostituting herself", to sell a song. Yes, I understand there's "no rules" to anything right or wrong in the indutry, but the majority of her audience seems to be the impressionable teenagers (maybe now, some older guys :)) who can easily access it on youtube. IMO, her music is somewhere secondary (at least in that video). Possibly, she's trying to shed the Hannah Montana image and "trying to be" all grown up? I don't know, but I think it's the younger boys & girls (Hannah's fans) that get seriously affected from this. I just think she really doesn't need to portray herself in this way to showcase her talent, but then, that's only my opinion and everyone's won't be the same. We've made a serious effort in keeping a close eye on limiting what our children watch at home, and I can honestly say, the results are very, very rewarding. :)
 
Of course in my own home, it would not be possible for us to bring them up properly or for that matter do anything properly, if not for our Faith. I don't want to break any TOS here, but it certainly is the #1 priority in our home that directs us in everything we do. If not for that, we'd be only left to our own (IMHO severely limited) devices/decision in upbringing our children with whatever discipline, morals, ethics, values etc....that suited our fancy. (Like Bob (Leadfoot) has said), we're also far from perfect and the world out there is very, very wicked, but all we can do is try to put our children on a good path where they can grow up to know what's good, know what's evil, and hopefully choose to do the right thing when confronted.
 
        

Moshkiae

drewfx1
...
 But thanks to Miley's tongue (and other parts), she can get endless free publicity!
 ...
 Or am I too cynical? 
...

And you don't by posting here to show off your musical talents?
 
That's not nice ... judging your own peers and artists!
 
Miley is the one that said something, and as Sinead said, the media starting ringing her phone off the hook!
 
There is a side of the business, that is sad, and often ignored, and it is that same that Sinead mentions. Of course, none of us would say/do anything, if it was Karyn, MamaBear or Julibee, but we have to say it if it is someone else that is out of our reach.
 
This is HER choice. And you and I have to right no judge or choose it for her. The fact that she is laughing and enjoying it ... is about her and for her to deal with. THIS IS HER RIGHT as a person, and be it lewd or not, IS NOT AN ISSUE ... with the only concern, being ... that it won't work ... if she doesn't put out with her own lover/relation! 
 
As long as you are honest with yourself about all this, I don't think it's an issue ... but the minute that she is not the funny/fun/exciting/allthewords girl to her relation, then the reality changes ... and her public personna takes a hit!
 
THAT IS HER CHOICE.
 
Please stop judging women for what they do, specially in this area. It doesn't matter one iota to me if she does this or some porno ... heck, it worked for a few of them, and they don't seem to be complaining.
 
Note: If all it is, is a record company thing, I would imagine that dad and mom know a thing or two about that and put a stop to it ... 18 or not!

I think that perhaps you're reading things into my post that I didn't say.
 
My point was only that Sinead might be exploiting Miley's massive publicity for her own benefit.
 
But you are of course free to judge me as you like. 

SGodfrey
Is Miley Cyrus manipulating the industry or is the industry manipulating her?  If it's the former then Miley appears to be the one in control and she is an adult after all, if still young.  If it's the latter, then Sinead is right - IMO of course.
 
Not sure about the argument about parental control.  Firstly I completely respect all of the points being made here - especially yours Danny; and I agree that the parents should be setting the rules and boundaries.  Yes there are much bigger influences out there as Danny points out, nevertheless Miley is part of the media wave that avalanches us and tells the kids that certain types of behaviour are acceptable (and they'll see this stuff with or without parental controls).  The kids can easily be misled despite best efforts so I tend to think that what Miley is doing is wrong.  She is a role model whether she acknowledges it or not and she is going to influence a lot of young people out there, and not for the better.  I'm not sure if it's something she's considered.
 
I so agree with Danny about kids becoming parents too young.  I see them with their pushchairs all the time - "babies with babies" I call it.  What chance have they got of bringing their kids up well?  That's not to say that some of them won't do it extremely well, just that I think that a lot of them will be creating the next generation of dysfunctional adults.  But how did they get in this situation in the first place?  I think that the "media avalanche" has a lot to do with it.  When there are so many sex-is-best images out there, are we surprised that there are so many teen pregnancies?  I think Miley is part of that.
 
Just want to say that I don't want to be stepping on any toes here and all of the above is just my opinion and I'm not trying to be confrontational.  I do think this is a really interesting subject and something it's important to see debated.

Great post..no toe stepping on this end. :) Agreed on kids being misled, but again, shouldn't they know right from wrong to where you have control over the influences? Here's a scenario...
 
When I was in my teens, I was allowed to have the hair but I was NOT allowed to have the earing. My dad was totally agaist it. Now you know that my music hero's made me want the earing....and ok, it's not really a good representation, but this was something I was told I couldn't have. The day I turned 18, I got my ear pierced. I told my father "if I can now fight and die for my country dad, I can have an earing." He hugged me and told me he was proud of me.
 
My point is...I was allowed to follow my hero's. I was allowed to be inspired by, but I had to know right from wrong. Wearing roach clips with feathers all over myself was a no no, but long spikey hair was ok. I knew not to get involved with drugs but I did experiment with weed a bit. That had nothing to do with my hero's...that was the in thing really. I knew sex could make me a father so I took precautionary measures or I stayed away from it.
 
My parents knew me because they made it a point to know me. I would never be able to blame my music hero's for what I may have become back then. I'd blame my parents for allowing it and not cracking the whip on me when I needed it. And trust me, when I needed it, the whip was cracked. I was punished for two marking periods for getting bad grades and was only allowed out on weekends. No phone, no video games no playing outside after school. They took away the things that mattered most to me when they disciplined me....the way it should be.
 
How can we really blame media if we take part with our children and drill them on the rights and wrongs? Or, if we do what Herb and his wife did (awesome Herb...there's one for the raising children book brother!) you're not just involved with your children, you are allowing your children to give their take on things. There's nothing worse than being a child and not having a voice because mommie and daddy know it all...know what I mean? There's no reason for that type of thing in my opinion.
 
If you ask parents that are involved with their children how much they literally learn FROM their kids....they'll tell you "they teach us as much as we teach them". :)
 
-Danny

Mesh, feelings are mutual brother on the heart thing. :) Ok, let me be honest with you. I will say that I don't think Miley needed to go the route she chose. I felt the same way when Madonna was pulling some of her crazy antics. She was already the queen of pop, she didn't need to push the envelope in MY opinion. I didn't feel it made her any better...it just made her more exploited. Then again....see, and this is what sucks.....
 
The music business is all about being in the news. When people STOP talking about you, you're a has-been. Enter Drew's most excellent conclusion with Sinead. She needs Miley more than Miley needs to list her as an influence. Does she really think she'll be able to complete an entire US tour without any cancellations? She's in for a rude awakening. Even the mighty Van Halen had some bad shows.....she's hardly in their class and is so full of contradictions, I sincerely believe her main reason for posting is just as Drew explained it. What has she got going for her? You know she wants a piece of what Miley has.
 
But I do think Miley is quite good at what she does. She's pretty, has a good voice and could have decided on being "the good girl musician." Meaning, leave a little for the imagination without blatant "I'm selling sex" type exploitation. But see, as much as I can say that, the entertainment side of me being in this business is saying "to each their own."
 
I know prostitutes that make excellent bread. They are so beautiful I've asked them why they didn't try to be models. Most of them tell the same story. The dude they were with left them with a child...no where to live, problems with their parents....they had to survive. Where could they make the money they were making? Yeah, to us it's a bad choice of profession....(and to some of them it is too and they hate it) but we also have to live in their shoes to think in their shoes.
 
Hearing my baby cry because it's starving or living under the boardwalk can totally change a person. Our thoughts aside on the prostitution thing, they work really hard and risk their lives...so I can't fault them really. I feel bad for them, pray for them and hope they can change their way of life for the better to where they can make that amount of money at a job....but it's hard to tell a person how they should survive. Going legit means working 3 jobs today just to survive. 2 isn't cutting it anymore because one of the jobs usually sucks.
 
So anyway....I think this is a great discussion and everyone has had good things to say both pro and con. At the end of the day, if a person survives, we may not like what method they choose....but we have to accept it and if it's something that we really feel strongly about....you take that passion and your feelings and make it apparent to your kids. It may not cure the problem but it does plant the seed and may make them think twice. :)
 
-Danny 

I'm beginning to feel good about not being able to say I've heard ANY song by Brittany, Lindsey or Miley, or that I've seen any of them in a movie.  (At least, not that I'm aware of.)

I took a personal day off work and volunteered at my kid's school today. My feet are sore and I'm tired.
 
I've got the Chorus's sheet music for the XMas show (Sleigh Ride, A Candle for Peace and Deck the Halls).
 
I'm gonna see how long it takes me to enter all the midi in and see if I can record each member solo during their next 18 chorus practices before the show. Hand out CDs at the show.
 
Anyone recorded a chorus of 10 year olds before? Any point in trying to do a tight version? I thought it might be fun to give each kid a version where they have a kicking solo to copy for their families for XMas.