Hi guys,
 
Well, I've been using Sonar since Sonar 7, and last year when X2 came out I decided to wait and see and not to upgrade from X1d - at least immediately. Let me explain why.
 
X2 seems to be very buggy. I've been reading this forum and found out that it would be unwise to upgrade. I'm in the middle of recording/mixing and I don't want to upgrade only to find out that my projects doesn't work anymore. I think it's just too risky. I'm almost done with mixing our debut album but I've decided not to upgrade when it's finished. Instead of upgrading I've been thinking to try Cubase 7. Why? Well, let me explain you why. :)
 
First of all, If I buy a new DAW I don't want to install any LE/DEMO version of ANY kind of music software or plugins. If I found out that I don't need them, they're still on my computer part of that DAW. To put it simply: I think Cakewalk should develope their own plugins/reverb/ampsims, not to promote third party plugins as part of their DAW package. If I want to buy third party plugins I know where to find them.
 
I don't want to pay $100 for improved Smart Tool or touch screen support. I can do all my audio file cuts and clips with X1.
 
So what else Sonar X2 has to offer?
 
Breverb. I have ValhallaRoom, ValhallaVintageVerb and ValhallaShimmer. They're great. One day I will purchase Altiverb.
 
Overloud TH2. I have Amplitube.
 
Upgraded mastering tools. I have T-RackS Grand.
 
Session Drummer 3. I have Superior Drummer 2.0.
 
True Piano. I have Reason 6.5 with Abbey Road Keyboards.
 
ProChannel Console Emulator. I have Waves Abbey Road REDD, T-RackS British Channel and I'm thinking of buying Slate VCC.
 
And what comes to ProChannel, I purchased every ProChannel module there is only to find out that I don't need them. I prefer T-RackS' compressors and limiters.
 
And last but not least: I don't want to buy a DAW that is not stable.
 
So, why I should upgrade to X2? To get buggy DAW and LE software I don't need? Thanks, but no thanks. I think Cakewalk should rethink their concept of DAW. Now it seems to me that they didn't spend enough time beta testing and they kinda rushed an unifinished product out to be released. And I've said it before but I say it again: please keep the future versions of Sonar free from all those third party software and plugins.
 
When I'm working I want to record music and work with stable DAW - not to report crash bugs to support. Don't get me wrong: I use Sonar X1 daily and I think Sonar X1 is the best DAW I've ever used.
 
Edit: Paragraphs with IE (hope it works).

Ok, I used paragraphs but for some reason they did not work. Sorry about that.

J4R10


Ok, I used paragraphs but for some reason they did not work. Sorry about that.

You gotta use internet explorer for this forum.  At least for sure, firefox doesn't work.  My work email requires IE and so does this forum.  They're the only 2 things I use IE for!

Let me get this straight: you don't want third party plugins in your DAW, but yet you're using Waves, Valhalla room, Superior drummer, T-racks, Reason, Amplitude & are considering purcahsing Slate?  err.. ok.

If you've already made up your mind, then that's great - best of luck to you.  Personally, I've found X2 to be more stable than X1.  Not sure what forum entries you're reading, but I think you'll find most entries indicate people have had similar results.  Additionally, most bare bones DAWs are very stable on their own - it's the plugin and driver compatibility that typically affects overall stability significantly. 

Regarding Sonar and third party plugins - you can select to not install components you don't want (e.g. Overloud), so they're not on your hard drive as you outline above.

Last - You say you'd prefer Cakewalk to develop their own plugins and not leverage any third party products?  Cakewalk has developed many plugins, most recently, many of the prochannel modules are cakewalk developed - the very same prochannel modules you say you prefer not to use and prefer third party products over, which is ironic because you outlined you don't want third party products.  

Anyway, like I said, if you've already made up your mind, then I do genuinely wish you the best of luck.  But if you came on here just to vent, that's cool - but you completely contradict yourself a few times in your post.

Russ

J4R10

 I use Sonar X1 daily and I think Sonar X1 is the best DAW I've ever used.

Then why change, either to X2 or Cubase 7? Just keep on using X1d until there is something you want in the other program.
 
Of course upgrading to X2 would be way cheaper than getting Cubase, and you may even find you are one of us that do not find X2 very buggy. I find X2 a big improvment over X1. X2 and X1 can happily co-exist on the same PC.
 
Its easy to find similar comments about Cubase 7 being too buggy to use, here is one selected at random http://homerecording.com/bbs/user-forums-brand/cubase-user-forum/cubase-7-nightmare-352073/ and I am sure you will find plenty of satisfied customers too.
 
And just because there is bundled content if you do a custom install you can choose not to install a lot of it. And there is always the Studio version if you are just interested in the core program.
 
 

Ian, it is because of posts like Jari's here that I get a little picky about calling things bugs that really are not bugs but rather are changes in how things are done or differences in functionality.  I hope that Jeri has a good experience with Cubase and that it works the way that he is expecting it to work.

I have spent, literally, hundreds of hours trying to replicate problems that forum users report as 'bugs.'  Particularly those that cause system crashes.  So far, the only things that seem to result in crashes on my system happen when I try to include older 32 bit plugins, or use outdated audio drivers.  While I truly believe that other people are having a different experience, that is not the case with either of the X2a setups that I run here (this includes the PRV opening to the correct now time on my systems).

Good luck Jari.  I hope that Cubase works wonderfully for you and that it allows you to focus on your music instead of playing with your computer.  I've tried Cubase 6 and 7 and have given up out of the learning curve frustration on both within a week.  It may make more sense to you than it did to me.

Glen

  Ok, you got me wrong. Maybe it's my poor english. :) I meant I don't like a concept of DAW that comes with third party demo plugins or LE software. They're not free. You pay something for those when you buy X2. Cakewalk gets some money promoting those plugins via Sonar and if customer upgrades to full version, Cakewalk gets some profit for that. I know it's tough competition out there, but I think it's misleading marketing to promote new DAW with all these LE'S. Maybe it's just me.

Well Cubase 7 contains LE software - except they call call it SE

HALion Sonic SE

HALion Sonic SE is a streamlined version of HALion Sonic, Steinberg’s premier VST workstation

They also use third parties, Voxengo for one (That's not a bad thing IMHO)


I can see where you are coming from but don't full understand you logic.

Most people find X2 to be stable.  If you have read otherwise in forum, it is because forum is a place to ask questions about failures and not necessarily successes.  So the view is distorted by its nature.  Also, 95% of all issues of instability are not actually X2, rather they are the OS, interface driver not set up (and optimized) correctly or in some cases older plugins.  This is true of all DAWs.  Jumping from one DAW to another DAW will not solve these issues.  People Jump around only to sometimes come back, realizing it is their system, not the DAW software that needs to be changed.

Hello!

I'm going to chip-in here as I'm still using Pro 8.5 with all the updates which hasn't crashed on me yet and shortly, after I build a new "rig", I'm going to use my X1d or whatever the last update was as I got the free upgrade offer so it's unlikely I'll upgrade to X2 at this point.

The reason I'm writing this as I find 8.5 really stable and hope that X1 is going to be as stable.

I also wanted to highlight that I've other producer friends and people I know of who have constant problems with Cubase 7 being unstable and crashing.  They even use Melodyne and find this makes it crash more!  I know people have commented on stability issues with V-Vocal but I've being following the guidelines and so far to date, my projects haven't exhibited any problems - may this long last!

I also know of producers who use the ubiquitous Apple Logic Pro and have frequent crashes or really stupid bugs appearing!

My point being that no software is perfect but compared to other producers, I don't experience anywhere near the problems they get so I wish you luck if you think Cubase is going to be more stable or even the premium priced Logic which I think is overrated!  Someone please tell me what's so good about Logic...