I know that SONAR uses a 64bit floating point mix engine. I love it.
 
I'm wondering what Pro Tools 11 native uses (the one with out the HD or HDX hardware) and I can't seem to Google up a clear answer.
 
 
Many of the older PT tutorials I am watching speak about clipping on aux inputs and a work around of inserting master faders to use as proxy input meters. I'm reflecting on how that sort of concern is pretty much a non issue with SONAR and its 64bit floating point engine.
 
Learning that people do this work around highlights my appreciation of the fact that SONAR can let you select either pre or post fader metering.
 
Is Pro Tools native up to par now or does 64bit floating point mixing require the more expensive HD option?
 
Thanks.
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

It's pretty much a non-issue with native Pro Tools, too, since it's 32-bit float like SONAR. HD is 48-bit integer, but uses a clever sliding window that gives an effective range equal to floating-point.
 
Now, whether or not 64-bit precision does anything for you or not, that's another question. True, there are times within a calculation where 64-bit precision is necessary. But whether it's needed from start to finish, I'm dubious.

bitflipper
Now, whether or not 64-bit precision does anything for you or not, that's another question. True, there are times within a calculation where 64-bit precision is necessary. But whether it's needed from start to finish, I'm dubious.

I used to think it might be beneficial. Then I happened to actually think about it one day. Then I did the calculations. Then I tested it to confirm things.
 
Oh, and of all the people who claim they can hear the difference between 32bit and 64bit, I've yet to find a single person who can, you know, actually accurately describe what the artifacts from doing 32bit calculations sound like. 
 
But that's not their fault, because how are they supposed to imagine they hear something specific if they aren't told specifically what to imagine ahead of time?

I'm not particularly trying to "blow my own horn" here, but I just recently wrote a tutorial that explains why (IMO) this is largely a non-issue.  Cubase, for example, is still 32-bit only and there doesn't seem to be a swelling rebellion against that.  But certainly some plug-ins will do their stuff internally in 64-bit and downcovert before passing the data to the output port.  So, even if using SONAR in single precision mode, you're likely to have some double-precision action going on under the covers and totally unbeknownst to you.
 
You can read the full story here, if interested:
 
http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/07/15/ofdigitalbitsanddecibels/

@Drew...Here here! Or should that be hear hear?

The newer Protools HDX systems are using floating point TI DSP's vs the older system of Moto 56k's. Headroom out the wazoo...
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr12/articles/avid-hdx.htm
 

The newer Protools HDX systems are using floating point TI DSP's vs the older system of Moto 56k's. Headroom out the wazoo...
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr12/articles/avid-hdx.htm
 

The newer Protools HDX systems are using floating point TI DSP's vs the older system of Moto 56k's. Headroom out the wazoo...
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr12/articles/avid-hdx.htm
 

Hi Drew,
 I enjoyed learning about your calculations... that's why I think of it as a non issue... I love it because I don't have to think about it. I still mock best practices as that just seems normal. It's just nice to know for sure there is nothing that can clip behind the scenes.
 
Hi Bit,
 I wonder if I have misunderstood the 64 Bit Double Precision option. I always have it checked, but I assumed it was an above and beyond type of process. I just assumed that SONAR's basic mix engine was 64 point float. Are you saying it's 32bit float until you select 64 bit Double Precision?
 
 
Hi David,
 I'm off to enjoy your article.
 
 
I'm still hoping to learn what the Pro Tools native version mix engine is? I think the latest hardware is running 64bit float point but I can't find the info about the native version.
 
The point made by the tutorials that caused me to ask this question is that clipping does occur on the internal "aux input" tracks.
 
so I'd like to learn if that changed in the past 2 versions.
 
Thanks.
 
best regards,
mike

Here is an interesting quote from the link that Super G posted:
 

"The instruction sets and architectures of the Freescale and TI families of chips are completely different, and this means that no existing TDM plug-ins will run on HDX hardware. One of the major differences is that whereas the 56k chips used fixed-point processing, the new TI chips use floating-point arithmetic. In terms of resolution, where HD used 24-bit word lengths for plug-in processing and 48-bit for mixing, HDX uses a 32-bit floating-point resolution for plug-ins and a 64-bit floating-point resolution for mixing. This has two important consequences: firstly, it means increased dynamic range for the whole system, making it pretty hard to overload the mixer even when working with a large number of tracks. And secondly, both native and DSP plug-ins are now processed with the same resolution, meaning there can be better uniformity between the sound of native and DSP plug-ins."