Mike you might find this interesting too:
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...0/articles/pt_0610.htm
 

Unless you set Sonar's engine to use 64 bit double precision, it uses 32 bit single precision.
 

mike_mccue
Here is an interesting quote from the link that Super G posted:
 

"The instruction sets and architectures of the Freescale and TI families of chips are completely different, and this means that no existing TDM plug-ins will run on HDX hardware. One of the major differences is that whereas the 56k chips used fixed-point processing, the new TI chips use floating-point arithmetic. In terms of resolution, where HD used 24-bit word lengths for plug-in processing and 48-bit for mixing, HDX uses a 32-bit floating-point resolution for plug-ins and a 64-bit floating-point resolution for mixing. This has two important consequences: firstly, it means increased dynamic range for the whole system, making it pretty hard to overload the mixer even when working with a large number of tracks. And secondly, both native and DSP plug-ins are now processed with the same resolution, meaning there can be better uniformity between the sound of native and DSP plug-ins."

I actually almost posted part of that quote here too, as I think it illustrates the fact that audio writers often don't have a good technical understanding of digital audio:
 

"HDX uses a 32-bit floating-point resolution for plug-ins and a 64-bit floating-point resolution for mixing. This has two important consequences: firstly, it means increased dynamic range for the whole system, making it pretty hard to overload the mixer even when working with a large number of tracks."

 
If they're really using 64bit floating point and we're not talking about bugs or plug-ins that are deliberately trying to clip, I'd say it's "pretty hard to overload the mixer" in the same way it's "pretty hard" for someone to accidentally blow out the Sun like a birthday candle.

Here's some specs from Avid:
 
http://www.avid.com/US/products/Pro-Tools-HD-Native/features#CompareProToolsHDfamily
 
I think that there is a difference between what I am calling "Pro Tools 11 native" (What Avid seems to call "Pro Tools 11 Software") and "Pro Tool HD Native".
 
In other words, I still haven't found the specs for the $599 package Avid calls Pro Tools 11 Software.
 
Thanks.
 
best regards,
mike

"If they're really using 64bit floating point and we're not talking about bugs or plug-ins that are deliberately trying to clip, I'd say it's "pretty hard to overload the mixer" in the same way it's "pretty hard" for someone to accidentally blow out the Sun like a birthday candle."
 
 Love it! But we can still blow out our monitors through negligence...

 
 
Here's the Pro Tools Software vs Pro Tools HD Native comparison. It was in a frame. This direct link doesn't have all the decorative stuff but the info is there; There is no info about the mix engine.
 
http://www.avid.com/US/Common/products/shadow-box/pro-tools-software-comparison-table

Jeff Evans
Mike you might find this interesting too:
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...0/articles/pt_0610.htm
 

Thanks Jeff,
 That is very similar to the tutorials that have caused me to ask the original question, which is; Does this still apply?
 
 I find it interesting that the article explains the the old LE versions had more headroom than the TDM systems.
 
 I'm wondering how this evolved from Pro Tools 9 onwards.
 
 best regards,
mike
 
 

Found it:
 
 
page 199

Clip Indication
Because Pro Tools uses 64-bit floating point calculations for the mixer, there will never be any internal clipping in the mixer. However, it is possible to
clip at the converters on your audio interface. It is
also possible to clip when writing audio to disk in
fixed point audio files (16-bit or 24-bit files only,
32-bit floating point files will not clip).

 
 
page 200

Auxiliary Input and Instrument Track,
and Sends Clip Indicators
Auxiliary Input and Instrument tracks, as well as
Sends clip indicators display yellow when the signal exceeds 0 dBFS (even though there is no internal clipping). This provides a warning that these
audio streams can clip at the output converters or
when writing fixed-point file formats to disk.

 
It seems like it finally caught up with the times.

It is all interesting stuff but for me personally I don't worry about it because there are far more important things to worry about in terms of getting a great mix than the summing procedure.
 
And also if you adopt a K System approach to signal flow and have VU meters effectively telling you what the rms levels are everywhere in your system and the headroom built into that will also take care of any clipping or peaks then you will never have any issues with clipping on any track or buss or your masterbuss.
 
The Masterfader concept in PT is also interesting in that you can have more than one and place them where ever you like too.

dmbaer
...  Cubase, for example, is still 32-bit only and there doesn't seem to be a swelling rebellion against that.

Na, Cubase has been 64 bit for a while now.
I only know beacuse I was thinking of adding it to my tool kit a while back so checked that first.
 
I never did get it, and right now I feel no burning need to.
Sonar is working quite well for me :-)
 
Cheers - Cliff

I understand the need for a bus to have greater headroom that the sum of its sources, but 64 bit floats are really huge. According to this guy, a 32 bit float alone has a dynamic range of 1686db. My ears are bleeding at thought...
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=10Pi0MRbaOYC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA253&dq=32+bit+floating+point+decibels&source=bl&ots=lonV3KNrIo&sig=OiTTREJjpA3Mf_zOsaN67KAX-v8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DfrxUdyqMoK1qQG5-IGQDQ&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=32%20bit%20floating%20point%20decibels&f=false