Well I activated 3 programs last night. Each one took about a minute to activate with iLok, with no glitches at all. I was also able to de-activate some licenses that were for an old computer I no longer use, which freed them up to use on my new computer. I found it all to be very user friendly. Worked like a charm.

Voda La Void
I just can't really contemplate the rage that would overcome my self control when faced with perfectly working software and hardware...but I'm out of business over a freakin dongle that was never in my interest in the first place.  

1. Piracy most definitely impacts the income of creators of intellectual property such as software developers (just ask any employee of the hundreds of record companies that no longer exist). No software developers equals no software. So the dongle is in your interest regardless of whether or not you care to believe it is.
2. Software is useless without hardware to run it on. All hardware is prone to failure. Adding a dongle to the mix does not move the needle more than 0.001% in terms of your odds of having a hardware failure impact your ability to run your system.
3. Even without a dongle, you're still likely to have some sort of copy protection/authorization scheme. There is plenty of perfectly good software out there that can no longer be authorized because the company went out of business and the authorization servers have long since gone off line.

JohanSebatianGremlin

Voda La Void
I just can't really contemplate the rage that would overcome my self control when faced with perfectly working software and hardware...but I'm out of business over a freakin dongle that was never in my interest in the first place.  

1. Piracy most definitely impacts the income of creators of intellectual property such as software developers (just ask any employee of the hundreds of record companies that no longer exist). No software developers equals no software. So the dongle is in your interest regardless of whether or not you care to believe it is.
2. Software is useless without hardware to run it on. All hardware is prone to failure. Adding a dongle to the mix does not move the needle more than 0.001% in terms of your odds of having a hardware failure impact your ability to run your system.
3. Even without a dongle, you're still likely to have some sort of copy protection/authorization scheme. There is plenty of perfectly good software out there that can no longer be authorized because the company went out of business and the authorization servers have long since gone off line.

1 - There are other, far more prolific authorization solutions that don't require a dongle, so no, still not in my interest even indirectly. Dongles are *a* solution, not *the* solution, and they are the least popular solution for the market as a whole.  That may be changing, of course, because more and more people are accepting it and it's becoming more normalized, exactly as I fear.  Consumers are easy to distract and get them to invest in theft prevention solutions that are in the interest of the software company, not the consumer.  
 
2 - Adding a dongle to the mix is another needless point of failure, and is not remotely rare.  And most of the other hardware is replaceable to maintain the unit, whereas non-support for a dongle equals game over.  I can always buy another hard drive, power supply, CPU, even motherboard - I can rebuild the entire machine and still retain use of 20 year old software by a defunct company.   But when - not if - the unsupported dongle fails...it's over.  Now you have to buy the newest version of whatever it is, which won't be compatible with your old operating system and hardware, and etc....you get to reinvent your DAW and thin your wallet.  Yay! 
 
Because of a theft prevention device that's built on the concept of not trusting you, the person who bought it.  I know, I know...the best humans can come up with is to invent processes that impact all users on the front end.  From driver's licenses to software licenses - when there's cheating happening among a few, we always invent some process, some bureaucratic step, on the front end that impacts every single participant.  
 
3 - Right, that's why I prefer authorization schemes that don't require residual online authorization or dongles.  Ongoing authorization schemes are perfectly situated to screw everything up.  As it stands, today I can get my stuff installed and authorized, then make images and save files to keep myself in business as long as I can keep the hardware components (that *are* in my interest) running.  No dongle or server can be as trouble free as that.  Sorry.
 
This way, I protect my freedom.  Ha ha.   

Voda La Void

ooblecaboodle
What grinds my gears is that every tom dick and harry seems to be trying to make their own version, so now I need a usb port for an iLok, a Waves USB Key, a Merging dongle, and so on and so forth. 
 
 

Further, you're at the mercy of every one of those to maintain the dongle solution and how they apply it to software releases.  Dongle A works for Version A, then a few years down the line Version A is no longer supported and they have developed a new dongle B to work with Version B, and "unfortunately" dongle A isn't supported either since it goes with Version A software...dongle A breaks and...you're done.  But no worries - just buy their new Software Version B!  

I agree. In defence of iLok (again), we have some very very old software we still use occasionally, authorised on the original style iLoks. We can't authorize any new software to those old iLoks, but the authorisation still works for the old software.
 
To clarify a little, we keep them on separate older dongles due to ease of use.
We have software that we use all the time on the modern ones, so the iLoks basically live in one of three studio machines. We don't want those dongles to have to be moved from studio to studio mid-session when the older software is required elsewhere, so we keep it on a separate dongle.
 

Voda La Void
But when - not if - the unsupported dongle fails...it's over.  Now you have to buy the newest version of whatever it is, which won't be compatible with your old operating system and hardware, and etc....you get to reinvent your DAW and thin your wallet.  Yay! 
 

If the dongle fails, you buy another dongle and load the license on it. Simple. If we're talking about a case where the company no longer exists, then you're just as screwed as you'll be when -not if- you get to the point where you need to do a clean install.

Because of a theft prevention device that's built on the concept of not trusting you, the person who bought it.

EVERY software authorization scheme is built on that concept. 
 

3 - Right, that's why I prefer authorization schemes that don't require residual online authorization or dongles.  

I prefer a steak and a BJ when I get home every night so where does that leave us? Just two more schmucks with dreams that will never come true.

JohanSebatianGremlin
 

Voda La Void
But when - not if - the unsupported dongle fails...it's over.  Now you have to buy the newest version of whatever it is, which won't be compatible with your old operating system and hardware, and etc....you get to reinvent your DAW and thin your wallet.  Yay! 
 

If the dongle fails, you buy another dongle and load the license on it. Simple. If we're talking about a case where the company no longer exists, then you're just as screwed as you'll be when -not if- you get to the point where you need to do a clean install.


 

 
Only on a "clean" install, for any *online* authorization.  And a disk image circumvents all of that. Again, more options when I don't have a dongle or a cyclic authorization solution.  NONE of my software on my computer is a dongle or cyclic authorization.  In fact, all of my software with the exception of windows has no online authorization at all.  Waves and Fab Filter support one time dongle authorization for machines that don't go online - I do my image after, and yay, I'm done.  Set.  You can't do that with software that requires a dongle or cyclic authorization. Image all you want, you'll still be a dependent on a cheap chip made in China.  
 
Further, I was also talking about how software manufacturers are going to start screwing you with the dongle by "upgrading" dongle platforms and inventing "new features", and then *removing support* for previous dongles, with the proverbial "we're so sorry, but unfortunately you'll have to upgrade to our new software to get the new dongle platform"....all because your dongle broke for 10 year old software.  It will happen.  I'm 46.  I've been around.  It. Will. Happen.  It doesn't take any imagination at all to see this coming... 
 

Because of a theft prevention device that's built on the concept of not trusting you, the person who bought it. 
 

EVERY software authorization scheme is built on that concept.

 
Correct.  That's why I prefer authorization schemes that don't require residual authorization throughout the life of the software, nor dongles.  All of my software conforms to my preferences, since most of us like it that way. It's already bad enough that I, the paying customer, have to prove I own something after I own something because the software company doesn't have the imagination to come up with a theft prevention solution that doesn't impact the customer after the sale - to then require me to invest even more money and time, and agree to be impacted for the entire life use of the product is a bridge too far, for me. 
 
One time authorization, upon install only, like every single software program on my machine (including my brand new DAW machine) avoids the problems of screwing paying customers.  The only programs I have that even do online authorization are windows. 
 

3 - Right, that's why I prefer authorization schemes that don't require residual online authorization or dongles.  

I prefer a steak and a BJ when I get home every night so where does that leave us? Just two more schmucks with dreams that will never come true.

 
Speak for yourself.  I'm living the dream, right now.  You're the one with dongles and rationalizations.  I don't own a single dongle, nor does any of my software require me to go get authorization on the regular.  I've been disconnected for quite some time.  My new DAW works the same way.  
 
 
Look, I have no problem with coexisting with dongles, ha ha.  It looks like a great option for some people.  They seem to really like it.  I don't see why I should run around convincing them it sucks.  Most people like replacing all their software and hardware every few years.  They upgrade their phones every year.  They foam at the mouth for OS updates to change things around and create a new look for their tools.  I just don't function that way.  I buy a tool and use it until it dies.  Dongles and cyclic authorization schemes don't work for my sensibilities and how I approach tools.  
 
 

Got to throw in my support for Voda. Me coming from the unfortunate and atypical experience that about everything related to online authorizations, Ilok, dongles, has too often created a frustrating disaster. All I want to do is just use the program, abide by the laws, protect the company from piracy. Reinstall it on another computer, or the same one if it fails. No crap. Just pay for the thing and use it.
 
My computer meltdown several months ago only highlighted the curse.
 
Replaced the motherboard in my main rig. Only thing requiring a physical dongle was Pod Farm.
 
Line 6 let me reauthorize once, but said that I was at the end of life reauthorization. Good luck if you melt down again. A few hundred dollars however would dry the tears. Bummer. I thought I'd bought the thing to use forever. Now in the fine print, they control.
 
All online Ilok authorizations were toasted. Not physical dongle but the option to authorize on one or two computers.
 
I had used the max 2 computers. Problem immediately surfaced with the transfer of license. Ugly discovery at my expense. Because the computer was locked in to whatever hardware parameters, the motherboard change altered the computer. It was no longer recognized as the original computer, so could not deauthorize or transfer a single license. Ilok support was cold and brutal. The bastards told me it was my tough luck. Computer meltdown not their concern and lost programs my problem, not theirs.
 
Ilok told me just go beg with any developer of lost programs. Plead my case and hope for their granting another authorization.
 
Pissed off at the attitude that we got your money, now you are screwed.
 
Have to say that Air Music guys responded on the same day and loaded two more licenses into Ilok for Xpand.
 
The others... Gave up in the fight and did a 2 minute warez crack download and all is okay. No begging needed.
 
Why I respect and support Reaper, Hornet, others that just give you a damn serial number and let you fly with it.
 
John
 
 
 
 

Voda La Void
NONE of my software on my computer is a dongle or cyclic authorization.  In fact, all of my software with the exception of windows has no online authorization at all.  

And obviously that's the correct solution for you. It works for you and you're clearly happy with the results. 

My priorities are different. Not better, not worse, just different. I am not nearly as against authorization as you are and I personally would not find value in limiting my software choices to only those vendors who had authorization schemes which I found most convenient/least invasive. In fact, I would feel unduly constraned if I had to limit my musical palette in that way.
 
Put into abstract terms, your solution works for you because (I assume) you're perfectly content to paint what you paint without having access to certain colors. I happen to like some of those colors and what they bring to my work so its important for me to have them available. 
 

Further, I was also talking about how software manufacturers are going to start screwing you with the dongle by "upgrading" dongle platforms and inventing "new features", and then *removing support* for previous dongles, with the proverbial "we're so sorry, but unfortunately you'll have to upgrade to our new software to get the new dongle platform"....all because your dongle broke for 10 year old software.  It will happen.  I'm 46.  I've been around.  It. Will. Happen.  It doesn't take any imagination at all to see this coming...

Not for nothing but the sky is falling argument is generally a pretty weak argument. The sky could fall at some unspecified date in the future you just mark my words you young whippersnapper argument is even weaker. 
 
As we've already established, you don't have to justify your choices with anything stronger than 'its what I prefer'. If you like it that way, that's good enough. But the argument you're trying to make above is only ever going to convince you that your choices are valid.

And if you want to play the age card as proof of your wisdom, I got you beat by a few years. So everything you've seen and lived through, I've also seen and lived through. Companies that make it habit of screwing over their customers don't stay in business very long in my experience. Even big giant huge companies. Make too many choices that piss off too large a cross section of your customer base and you're going to find yourself struggling to keep the lights on. That's how the free market works.
 
 

Speak for yourself.  I'm living the dream, right now.  You're the one with dongles and rationalizations. 

Rationalizations? Really? I'm reminded of a story about a pot and a kettle and a certain very dark color... How did that go again?
 
 

Look, I have no problem with coexisting with dongles, ha ha.  It looks like a great option for some people.  They seem to really like it.  I don't see why I should run around convincing them it sucks.  Most people like replacing all their software and hardware every few years.  They upgrade their phones every year.  They foam at the mouth for OS updates to change things around and create a new look for their tools.  I just don't function that way.  I buy a tool and use it until it dies.  Dongles and cyclic authorization schemes don't work for my sensibilities and how I approach tools.  

Now you've hit it right on the head and nailed it. Couldn't agree more. Why are dongles so bad? The answer depends on you and your personal tastes. For some they aren't bad at all. For others, they're just horrible. It all depends on you, what you're willing to put up with and/or how important having access to certain software is to you.

Johan,
Your points valid also.
Actually had two dongle programs at one time. Ever present Line 6 and Revalver 4.
Revalver 4 was a forked up nightmare requiring the USB stick of your choice as the dongle.
Demo installed smooth and was good. Enough to purchase the program.
Then the dongle failed immediately with the registered version, but the ignorant end user can't replace a dongle without a legal investigation to rule out why you are trying to rip off the company with extra installations.
Spent over 4 hours in the middle of the night with hard core, beautiful techs in Europe.
We bounced back and forth files from multiple computers to patch the dongle, or the program to recognize the dongle.
The effort finally succeeded in a crippled way. Revalver came up but couldn't connect to the online store to get a couple more cool amp sims. Dead meat. Cut my losses at the moment and was glad that the program just opened.
 
Took the low road out of frustration and installed the readily available crack. Now everything works fine, and no dongle needed.
 
I do not advocate a grain of software piracy for all the moral reasons so often mentioned here. I am a big fan of some 13 year old kid cracking the vault and giving me an alternative means to get paid software up and running without groveling to some hi road lecture about piracy and maybe the grant to reinstall from a distance.
 
I realize that almost everyone has positive experience with dongles. Good relations with online activations.
 
Envy you guys. Don't know if it my registry cleaner or what. Have had a couple good and painless activations. Otherwise, I get raped over and over again. Seek the dark side just to maintain some hold on what I paid for in good faith.
 
John

JohnKenn
...
 
I realize that almost everyone has positive experience with dongles. Good relations with online activations.
 
...

I think that positive is probably an over statement. I think that most of us are neutral having had no really bad experiences but at the same time feeling that they are a bit of a necessary inconvenience. Lets face it every cracked copy of a software package is subsidised by the paying customers and the people that use cracked software get all of the benefits without making a contribution to the cost. I've probably heard all of the justifications over the years but I see them simply as self justification. Developers need to have the freedom to protect their work from misuse.
 
Seems to me that the people who REALLY "like" them are those who effectively use them to free themselves from being tied to a specific machine because as long as they have their dongle, and a free USB port, they can use their license. But this does not feel like a large user group. 
 
The people who REALLY "hate" them generally seem to be those who have had a major problem, simply don't have a free USB port or have heard so much bad stuff about them they see them as just too risky. There is no doubt that dongles have failed some users and whether its because of a bad dongle, incompatibility with a USB port, a driver, the motherboard or some other software, ultimately when the dongle "fails" the dongle gets the blame.
 
This is further aggravated by the developers failing to develop a suitable solution for a failure. I think that what people want when a dongle fails is the ability to use the software until the dongle is replaced and that the replacement should ideally be at the developers expense or at least subject to a reasonable discount.
 
Unfortunately too often the recovery process is too complex and convoluted making the legitimate user feel like they are being punished which is wrong. 
 
I currently sit in the neutral camp. Unless there is a radical change in what I do I don't see me ever exploiting the "use anywhere" freedom that a dongle offers, mine is in the back of the PC I'm running Cubase on and that's where I expect it to stay. Based on my experience to date I'm expecting the dongle to work OK if I am wrong then my perspective may change. Based on my research, and experience to date, Cubase is the right Sonar replacement for me, it needs a dongle and FOR ME that was not a deal breaker.