In the most recent copy of Electrical Contracting and Maintenance Magazine, I ran across this story. It's about replacing  non-grounded outlets with 3 prong grounded outlets and not rewiring back to the panel properly. Yes, it is legal still to do this as long as certain conditions and code requirements are followed. It's not the best way to do things though.
 
http://ecmweb.com/contractor/failures-outlet-testing-exposed
 
It caught my eye since the story relates closely to what we all do..... home recording.  The side bar story recounts the issues encountered in the rewiring of an older house which had non-grounded electrical outlets. The author was building a studio in the house and hired a licensed electrician to do the work.
 
Be sure to read the sidebar story called Home Studio Horror Story... the link > http://ecmweb.com/contractor/failures-outlet-testing-exposed?page=3   is also included near the very top of the main story. The writer opted to hire a licensed electrician to do the wiring job. The electrician hired, opted to take some short cuts to save time and money and that ended up destroying the studio gear and cost the electrician when it all had to be rewired correctly and the studio equipment replaced.
 
Having been zapped more than once on stage, and seeing a buddy's string touch a light pole and literally melt itself into the plastic nut....... this stuff is real, and it can be dangerous.  More than one time I have lost equipment to improperly wired stage outlets.
 
Anyway.... this is some food for thought.

Seems like the author took the option to have the house wired on the cheap and then had it backfire.
 
It's a good reason why a vendor should avoid customers that opt for the cheap option. I think the electrician made a bad decision to do the work the way it was done originally. I don't think it's helpful to help people take short cuts.
 
The author seems to think that drilling a hole in the wall and doing it the right way was some sort of punishment when in fact he should have just paid to have it done right the first time.
 
Seems like a bunch of dirty laundry.
 
Anyways.
 
best regards,
mike

Wow I never realized the statistics were so high of getting zapped onstage 70%... Well I can count myself among those....

At my parents house most of the outlets are two prong... so much going on there. I just read the "horror story" wow... I remember playing outside on the deck with the band back in about '66 and getting zapped on the mouth by an SM-57... no fun at ALL.
Another thing is loose ground wires. Where we used to live I had a gorrible problem with buzzing, like there was a dimmer switch somewhere. I finally began opening outlet and switch plates... every ground wire was loose. The hot wires were not on screws but stuck into the back of the outles or switch but for some reason the ground wires were on the screws but like I said they were all loose. I went through the house and tightened them all and it helped a LOT. There was another problem at the pole, at the street. I could walk under the power wires servicing the house with a portable radio and it would buzz like crazt under the wires. I called GA Power and they came out, I showed them what was happening, they went up the pole, checked whatever they have up there and actually found a faulty piece, fixed it and that buzz stopped. Frankly I was surprised that they did that but... they did. I use power cnditioners here and they help. Down the road the power is so dirty you cannot even hear AM radio while driving down the road... and our power here is all underground. It is always something. Thanks for the article.
 
J

I guess you could look at it that way. However, in this time and day, most people are trying to get things done as inexpensively as possible..... including most people here..... probably you too. I know that I do.
 
Since most people are not electricians, they simply have to rely on that person's skills that the job is done right, even on the cheap.
 
I fault the electrician for not double checking to be sure the hot and neutral were correct and the installation of the "bootleg" ground was a mistake.... that should never be done. Using a GFCI outlet is the best way to solve a missing ground wire that is legal. Of course pulling a dedicated ground is better but I can attest that from being in this business and facing this very issue, that is not the easiest or the less expensive way. Certainly, rewiring with new cable is the best way. Using a non-contact tester, it is relatively easy to be sure the hot is actually the hot and the neutral is the neutral..... there is no excuse for 120v on a neutral slot in an outlet. Had the electrician taken the time to verify this one issue, the entire destruction of the studio gear would not have happened. When I used to do electrical work on a daily basis, and knew I was working on a 2 wire ungrounded circuit, I was especially careful to ensure the hot and neutral were not reversed when I was finished.
 
Older electricians remember a time when grounds were not common. 2 wires was the standard. Hot & neutral. The service equipment was grounded and the neutral was connected to the ground at the service. As a result, many homes with older wiring may still have this ungrounded wiring in it. Bonding the frame of dryers  and ranges used to be a common thing....relying on the neutral wire to be the grounding means. This is known as 3 wire outlets. This is no longer approved on new installs. The new ones are called 4 wire outlets, having a separate ground and neutral wire. However, the older ones are grandfathered and need not be replaced as long as everything else is up to code..... wire size, breaker size, wire condition.....

I didn't see any indication of going the cheep rout from what I read .. could be lazy too.

A side note... you should never allow electricians or cable guys to run anything through a foundation vent... unless you want a rat problem. The screen is on the vents for a reason. I see it all the time and when I was not paying attention an electrition did it to my house. Within a few months I had to trap rats in the crawlspace and I could see where he ran a wire through the corner of a vent and the rats made the hole bigger... and a rat can get through anything it can get its head through. A huge rat can squeeze through a hole the size of a quarter... Just saying... OK, back on topic, sorry.
 
J

Herb, do you know why Atwater-Kent, the king of the radio companies, went out of business? The All-American Five radio circuit. It was cheap to build but the wiring resulted in a hot chassis. A-K refused to build them because they were and are dangerous, only a cardboard back protecting the consumer from 120v. Theradios A-K built were better and they were safe but they couldn't compete with the price of the AM5 and they couldn't stay in business. I've worked on some AM5s, you have to be CAREFUL. Most of the bakelite radios of the 40s and 50s were this type of circuit. They do sound good though!
 
J

jbow
A side note... you should never allow electricians or cable guys to run anything through a foundation vent... unless you want a rat problem. The screen is on the vents for a reason. I see it all the time and when I was not paying attention an electrition did it to my house. Within a few months I had to trap rats in the crawlspace and I could see where he ran a wire through the corner of a vent and the rats made the hole bigger... and a rat can get through anything it can get its head through. A huge rat can squeeze through a hole the size of a quarter... Just saying... OK, back on topic, sorry.
 
J

Doe this mean that if you get rats running through the house you can sue the cable guy or electrician for fixing the foundation, floorboards and rat extermination?

I hear what you are saying Herb.
 
We just went through our 3 year remodel. The house and my mix room have all new copper 12g wire and fixtures.
 
I got the best guys I could find. I made them aware I don't cut corners.
 
They seem so unaccustomed to being asked to cut corners that it takes a few conversations to convince them that "to code" is just a minimum and I actually want it better than that.
 
After they left I pulled everything apart and fixed a few things... cause I can't sleep at night the other way.
 
I didn't bother telling them about the small details I fixed and over sights I found, and honestly I intend to hire them for phase 6 when I re do the live room.
 
I simply don't know how else to do it.
 
all the best,
mike
 
 

Guitarhacker
I guess you could look at it that way. However, in this time and day, most people are trying to get things done as inexpensively as possible..... including most people here..... probably you too. I know that I do.
 
Since most people are not electricians, they simply have to rely on that person's skills that the job is done right, even on the cheap.
 
I fault the electrician for not double checking to be sure the hot and neutral were correct and the installation of the "bootleg" ground was a mistake.... that should never be done. Using a GFCI outlet is the best way to solve a missing ground wire that is legal. Of course pulling a dedicated ground is better but I can attest that from being in this business and facing this very issue, that is not the easiest or the less expensive way. Certainly, rewiring with new cable is the best way. Using a non-contact tester, it is relatively easy to be sure the hot is actually the hot and the neutral is the neutral..... there is no excuse for 120v on a neutral slot in an outlet. Had the electrician taken the time to verify this one issue, the entire destruction of the studio gear would not have happened. When I used to do electrical work on a daily basis, and knew I was working on a 2 wire ungrounded circuit, I was especially careful to ensure the hot and neutral were not reversed when I was finished.
 
Older electricians remember a time when grounds were not common. 2 wires was the standard. Hot & neutral. The service equipment was grounded and the neutral was connected to the ground at the service. As a result, many homes with older wiring may still have this ungrounded wiring in it. Bonding the frame of dryers  and ranges used to be a common thing....relying on the neutral wire to be the grounding means. This is known as 3 wire outlets. This is no longer approved on new installs. The new ones are called 4 wire outlets, having a separate ground and neutral wire. However, the older ones are grandfathered and need not be replaced as long as everything else is up to code..... wire size, breaker size, wire condition.....