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  • How can I measure distortion on my mic pre?
2013/03/01 09:34:16
Rimshot
I have a cheap tube mic preamp and want to measure the amount of distortion I add when cranking up the tube overdrive.  I don't own an oscilliscope.  Is there a VST tool that does this kind of thing?  I have Googled this and have seen some VST tools that will measure another VST's distortion but have yet to find a tool to measure the incoming signal into the DAW.  

Thanks.

Rimshot

2013/03/01 10:25:10
The Maillard Reaction


The wave forms that we see in a DAW are great analogies to oscilloscopes.

Measuring distortion requires that you define what sort of distortion you are looking for.

For example; You can search out applications that measure THD. I've never seen a VST for that... but I haven't looked either.

The easiest way to see what's going on is to use a spectral analyzer to see how the frequency response changes.

If you want to get more refined you can send test tones thru the signal change and observe how the signal is distorted by viewing the waveform of a recorded sample. The waveform drawings made by your DAW will be great analogies to what you might see with an oscilloscope.

Regardless, the reality is that the distortion we are listening for (regardless of whether we like it or not) is not static and so the static test tone tests really don't help us understand the type of distortion we are actually listening for.

Test tone distortion tests just sort of tell you some crude info to let you know if the gear is usable... and they help you train your ear because you can see the edge of the waveform and see the cause of the special distorted character that you hearing.

Measuring for the dynamic distortion that we listen for in actual dynamic musical content isn't very effective and this is why people can use facts and data about static observations to argue about and misunderstand how different products can seem to offer similar specs. This is why it takes hours, weeks, months to really understand what each preamp circuit sounds like, because there are no real tests for that.

All the reviews written on the internet about pre amps that were just taking out of their shipping box... they don't mean a thing. It takes a long time to properly compare and experience the range of response a circuit can provide.


Measuring for distortion is fun... I don't want to discourage you. The first step is to decide what sort of distortion you want to measure for and to consider how you will regard the results of the testing.


best regards,
mike



2013/03/01 10:29:09
wogg
You'd need to use a single sine wave as an input to the mic pre, then use a tool like SPAN to watch for harmonic content.  I'm not aware of a plug that will take the spectrum and calculate harmonic distortion, but just looking at the spectrum will give you an idea.

Sound forge could make you a good sine wave sample, then feed that out your sound card at a really low level back into the mic pre and monitor the resulting input with SPAN, you should see the harmonic content come up as you crank the overdrive.

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this though, it's a given that the tube drive is adding distortion on purpose so the only measurement that matters is how it sounds.
2013/03/01 10:35:07
Jim Roseberry
If you have a test-tone generator
You could run a sine wave (at very reduced level) into the mic preamp and record several passes using different gain structures on the preamp.  Zooming-in, you can see the results of the preamp.


Had the message open (waiting for a moment to respond).
Looks like several others had the same basic idea.   
2013/03/01 15:49:29
Rimshot
Thanks for the info Mike.  I am not sure I can hear the tube distortion I am adding by cranking up the tube preamp overdrive.  If it was easy, I would like to see the harmonic distortion while I a listening to get a better idea of what I am doing to the sound.  Sometimes it sounds warm and other times not. 
 
Rimshot
2013/03/01 15:53:47
Rimshot
wogg


You'd need to use a single sine wave as an input to the mic pre, then use a tool like SPAN to watch for harmonic content.  I'm not aware of a plug that will take the spectrum and calculate harmonic distortion, but just looking at the spectrum will give you an idea.

Sound forge could make you a good sine wave sample, then feed that out your sound card at a really low level back into the mic pre and monitor the resulting input with SPAN, you should see the harmonic content come up as you crank the overdrive.

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this though, it's a given that the tube drive is adding distortion on purpose so the only measurement that matters is how it sounds.

Thank you Wogg,
 
I am going to test the way you outlined but I need a sine wave generator to plug into my preamp.  I wonder if I can get something to play back through my iPhone to generate the signal?  As I commented to Mike above, the reason I want this is to see how well I can trust my ears when introducing mic pre harmonic distortion.  I may like a vocal or guitar sound as I am setting up the mic pre but later, I could find that I overdid the tube drive.  If I can see it, I might better to be able to control. 
 
Rimshot
 
Rimshot
2013/03/01 15:55:42
Rimshot
Jim Roseberry


If you have a test-tone generator
You could run a sine wave (at very reduced level) into the mic preamp and record several passes using different gain structures on the preamp.  Zooming-in, you can see the results of the preamp.


Had the message open (waiting for a moment to respond).
Looks like several others had the same basic idea.   

Hi Jim,
 
Thanks for the reply.  I have asked if anyone knows of a sine wave generator for the iPhone.  I am going to check on that.  That might be my only direct way of generating a tone without purchasing a sine wave generator. 
 
Rimshot
2013/03/01 16:05:43
wogg
For reference, I used SPAN to watch harmonic distortion while testing a sub-woofer and posted screenshots here: http://woggmusic.com/WP/?p=31

That's an old version of span, but you should get the idea.
2013/03/01 16:20:16
Jeff Evans

In the hi fi world we were measuring very low amounts of harmonic and transient intermodulation distortion using distortion analysers and they are interesting and helpful. In your case you are looking at much larger amounts of distortion being introduced on purpose. It is easier to see and hear as a result.

I would be interested in when the preamp was being very clean and at what point any distortion was being introduced. There are some signal level things to consider. Our signal is at various levels at each point in the signal chain. The first level is the level just outside the preamp being fed in. A continuous sine wave at that point of various frequencies and levels would be desirable.  (hardware oscillator and true rms voltmeter very handy at this point) 

(It is important to know how any balanced and line inputs are configured. The block diagram of the pre will tell you this. Some lnputs actually bypass certain input stages in some pres, others do not. They just attenuate the signal and run it in through the Mic pre anyway.)

Inside the pre amp the first input gain stage may be overloaded by the input signal itself. The first stage can often feed a second gain stage and then various amounts of distortion can be added in by pushing the second stage from the first stage. (or an output transformer being driven hard by the input gain pre, Neve likes coupling one stage to the next with transformers, he uses them a lot) The second level is from any first stages inside the pre into its output stage. The third point in the signal chain is the signal and it's level leaving the preamp itself. (Hardware oscilloscope true rms voltmeter and hardware spectrum analyser good bits of kit to have hanging on the output)
 
I would start with the input gain set down low and having any output controls set high. And then looking at the waveform to see how clean it is in real time. You can record of course and playback. You can also use oscilloscope software and there are free ones that will show you quickly. A spectrum analyser would be good to have on hand to see if any other harmonics start rising up. 

I would be increasing the level of the input signal slowly while monitoring its level as well (true rms voltmeter) while observing what is happening to the waveform at the output of the pre amp. Time domain waveforms (such as normal DAW wafveforms) will start to distort their shape too as distortion sets in. The spectrum analyser (frequency domain waveforms) will start popping up other harmonics and you will be amazed by how much!

Square waves are excellent test signals too. They show up all sorts of ringing and oscillation issues that may be inside the Mic pre. But be aware of what the harmonic structure is like for a square wave when looking at it on the spectrum analyser. Sine waves are excellent because there is only one fundamental and it is very easy to see harmonics popping up. The square wave on the output will tell you a lot from its shape change while in time domain mode even. 

I would keep the output high but set the input gain now much higher eg for a microphone perhaps recording a softish instrument. I would do the level shift input thing again to see at what point the output wave form changes its shape too much and when the harmonics start to appear. Then you will have a range of input voltages that you know the pre is clean and from what point it starts distorting. You also need to see what happens when you drive that input gain stage hard and into the output stage that is turned down lower. Waveforms are going to change shape sooner and harmonics will start to rise up as well. You need to note where the controls have to be set in this mode and for ultra clean modes on your pre too.

It is well worth finding all this out. You may be introducing distortion in small amounts without knowing it simply because you are not fully sure how your pre is behaving and what it is doing to your input signal on various control settings. (And the range of input levels hitting the preamp) All of this stuff applies to expensive mic pres too. 

I have got one of those Behringer valve mic pres and I did the same with that. A series of tests which now allow me to set those input and output controls for either very clean operation or quite dirty if need be on top adding in some interesting colour. 

Here is a link to a virtual oscilloscope that was recommended by Sound on Sound. It is only very small and free. It has a very stable trigger mode which allows you to come in very close while still maintaining a perfectly still waveform for more detailed observation.

http://www.jaggedplanet.com/VST/jscope.html



2013/03/02 07:48:39
Rimshot
Hi Jeff, 

Thank you so much for all that info!  I am running Windows 7 64 and the linked you provided is for a 32 bit VST.  Any other ones out there that will run 64?  

Rimshot

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