bitflipper


"Prog rock" and "loops" in the same sentence? I don't think so.

Looping is the antithesis of "progressive". 

Stated mathematically a hypothesis for this situation is:  Prog = 1/Hip Hop
 
Usings loops within Prog seems acceptable if you allow that folks like Bill Laswell have created new forms or variants on a Prog theme while not limiting the use of technology or Funk in the process.  I think that as long as the loops are a means to an end rather than an end in themselves they can be used in a non-Heretical fashion within Prog.  And some in this thread have characterized work by Fripp as being loops when, in fact, the tape stretched between the two Revox decks was not looped and was non repeating.
 
I can't really define Prog but I know it when I hear it and I like it!
 

everything evolves...even progressive rock

The genre was originally called "progressive" because it was seen as an evolutionary advance, stretching the envelope of pop/rock in inventive ways. At a time when songs were required to be 3 minutes long, prog artists recorded 20-minute songs. Jazz, classical and folk elements were introduced. Unusual electronic and world instruments and effects were employed. Conventional song structures were abandoned. Live shows integrated spectacular visual effects. The essence of prog is evolution, meaning not doing the same thing over and over.

Many would say today that prog is dead, and it died when people started repeating themselves...repeating themselves...repeating themselves. Let the hip-hop crowd see how closely they can mimic one another; regurgitating other people's licks ain't what prog is about. 

Sure, loops and arps have been used in progressive rock. But whenever a loop was used, you can be sure it was a loop no one had heard before - it certainly didn't come from some canned library!

So true Bflipper. 

Its almost as if "modern" music has-for the most part- fallen into a fatally predictable and canned formulaic sort of "infinite loop", if you will, of sonic wallpaper that has to conform to a very particular pattern of style without deviation. Today's music is largely cast into a prefabricated mold that few people seem to want to break away from. Progressive was, on the other hand, generally innovative and exploratory in nature, fresh and unpredictable, and the art of musicianship was valued as much as the form of the music itself.

When I think of progressive, I think of Yes, ELP and Genesis, among many others that pioneered their own style and sound.. The very ideal of progressive music was to set yourself apart as a unique, rather than a habitual follower and conformist of some sort.

I like what RW Emerson had to say about conformity, at least as it pertains to artistry:

"Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity." 

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."  
“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” 





RW Emerson from "Self Reliance"

Kreative


I think there can be some limited use of looping in prog rock, in as much as anything repeats itself, occasionally. But indeed, the very essence of what is progressive is that the music changes, and evolves seamlessly throughout the song [chord progressions and key changes]. 

I was just reading the latest KVR interview, featuring Trevor Rabin, and then subsequently listening to songs from the Union Tour. Prog rock was at in it's finest hour, then, and I'm glad I got to see some of the bands that are no longer playing.

I can't blame people for wanting to try to recreate some of the magic of progressive music. Nevertheless, I wasn't enthusiastically impressed with these particular loop offerings because they lacked some depth of sound quality- at least to my ears. Still, they might be desirable for some people.

Rick Wakeman renamed "Union" as "Onion", because it made him cry..

@Jb101:  


With regard to the Union CD: Almost the entire band have openly stated their dislike of Union.  Bruford has disowned the album entirely, and Wakeman was reportedly unable to recognise any of his keyboard work in the final edit and threw his copy of the album out of his limousine. He has since referred to the album as "Onion" because it makes him cry when he thinks about it.- Wikipedia 

While the [union] music was not their best, the tour was a unique compilation of Yes participants [of which their were many], never before or afterward to be seen again. 

Yeah, it had Trevor Rabin and Steve Howe and maybe Wakeman and Tony Kaye as well I think. I would've loved to have seen that tour.

the stance bitflipper takes is the dsame ole strawman argument I have heard in many forms across different genres. It even uses the obligatory jab at hip-hop even though the topic is not hip-hop. By simply basing things pof the worst case stereotype of some guy looping material repeatedly right out the box it holds up, but that makes a huge assumption that is probably wrong. The average mainstream hip-hop producer would not touch these loops (although there are exceptions to everything), so let's toss old the same tired old guy bashing rap even though it is not the topic lines. The kind of guy most likely to use these kinds of loops is very unlikely to play them straight through. They are more likely to be mangled beyond belief and mashed with various things. Even in the description it is very clear they are not targeting someone trying to emulate old progressive rock bands.

I finally listened to the demo track.  It sounded much more like the soundtrack to a cheesy 80's movie than what most of us would consider within the bounds of progressive rock.

Kreative


@Jb101:  


With regard to the Union CD: Almost the entire band have openly stated their dislike of Union.  Bruford has disowned the album entirely, and Wakeman was reportedly unable to recognise any of his keyboard work in the final edit and threw his copy of the album out of his limousine. He has since referred to the album as "Onion" because it makes him cry when he thinks about it.- Wikipedia 

While the [union] music was not their best, the tour was a unique compilation of Yes participants [of which their were many], never before or afterward to be seen again. 

I was involved with Yes at this point in their career.  I thoroughly enjoyed the tour.  I didn't know Rick's comment had made it to Wikipedia.  Now, that is fame.
 
Did you know Tony's keyboards weren't always plugged in?

Jimbo21


Yeah, it had Trevor Rabin and Steve Howe and maybe Wakeman and Tony Kaye as well I think. I would've loved to have seen that tour.

It was great fun.  Nostalgia City.  If a little crowded at times..