2015/01/15 20:33:04
gswitz
I want to help folks at my church figure out how to get things sounding better, and I'd love some advice.
 
Ok, first, this is a very liberal / hippie church, but it has a ginormous organ in it.
When the Organist rolls, they are 24 db louder than the choir at least which is at most 10-15 people and is not mic'd.
 
Next issue, up on the 'stage' (not sure what to call it) the people gather and do a circle where people can tell exciting news from their lives. Kinda an old-school FB post. They pass around a dynamic mic, but the people either eat it or don't speak close to it at all. Is there a way to generally mic a circle with a dynamic that can be routed to the speakers? It would be best if it focused on the circle and didn't pick up ppl whispering to each other in the surrounding crowd.
2015/01/15 21:21:03
gswitz
I found a set of helpful videos...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhwQ62GO_A
 
2015/01/15 21:45:37
tlw
I've little to no experience of church sound reinforcement specifically, but as with all things to do with sound reinforcement the answer will depend on your budget and what the venue/audience can get their heads around and will tolerate. It satrikes me that you're about at the point where sensitive sound reinforcement starts to become necessary.
 
Keyboards that put out huge volume differences between settings or single notes/chords are far from uncommon and unfortunately many keyboard players (like guitarists with big volume jumps when they step on some pedals) don't necessarily see why they should pay attention to that problem and take steps to deal with it themselves. The ideal solution is to re-train the musician, not just about volume but about leaving musical space for others, sadly that's often also the hardest solution to achieve.
 
If the organ isn't entirely acoustic (e.g. a pipe organ of the kind that turns up in British churches) and happens to go through seperate amplification (that's not built into it) one easy solution might be to strap a limiter/compressor between organ and amplifier. Wouldn't need to be expensive, any half decent rack compressor set with a high enough threshold top just catch the too loud bits should work. Just watch out for the increase in RMS volume if the organist keeps pushing out the volume. Failing that plug the organ into a mixer and ride the channel volume as required.
 
Failing getting the organ volume down, the choir has to get louder.
There are quite a few low profile dynamic mics (small capsules on thin, dark coloured stands) on the market that might do the trick for the choir. Maybe one each, or maybe just a couple or three at a distance might do the trick. Much will depend on training the choir into using microphones of course - particularly that they can't wander around in front of them or turn away from them and expect things to "just work" somehow. Another option is to hang overheads over the choir which might be better if the singers are inclined to be a bit mobile. Watch out for hand clapping though - it can cut through anything and is surprisingly loud compared to singing. Again, simple compression might be useful. Even one of the mixers that has "one knob" compression on the mic channels.
 
People passing a mic around is always a problem, there are people who no matter how often you explain it to them will simply never get the hang of any microphone technique. I've done conferences where speakers were all told when given the mic "hold it pointing at your mouth at a distance of three or four inches and speak normally like you would to someone standing next to you". So one speaker will hold the mic next to their lips and shout at it then the next speaker holds it at around waist height facing the audience and almost whispers.
 
Ideally I guess you do what most places dealing with several speakers do and put the mic on a stand (maybe hidden into a lectern or something) and the speaker goes to the mic to speak. The lectern then gives them somewhere to put notes down and keeps them at a sensible distance from the mic. . An omni-pattern mic on a stand can be useful if the speakers form a crescent round it, but not if you don't want any bleed-through from people near the mic.
 
Then there are the ones who tap the microphone pop shield asking "is it on" despite just seeing five people use it....
 
Really the best answer is to have someone with fast reflexes sitting at the mixer and actively riding the channel fader(s) and mute(s) all the time.
2015/01/15 22:17:32
gswitz
This is a picture of the pipes...

 
This is a picture looking the other way...
http://www.stpaulsrva.org/about/history/

 
It's a big space.
2015/01/15 22:26:16
gswitz
tlw, that was an amazing post! The idea of the omni mic in the celebration circle is awesome. Only real consideration is the cable... maybe take it wirelessly to the mixer so that no one trips.
 
Honestly, I'm kinda thinking a condenser cardioid on 10' stand near the choir near the front of the church. I'm a bit worried that I'll lose control of feedback, but I can give it try.
2015/01/15 23:33:22
Paul P
 
Wow, nice church !  And for a bunch of hippies...
 
I wish our church had an organ like that.
 
2015/01/15 23:42:01
Jablowmi19
I don't like to be around that many sinners...
2015/01/16 05:48:48
mettelus
"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints..."
2015/01/16 09:03:21
gswitz
Yeah, the church is old and the population has slowly changed over the decades.
2015/01/16 10:30:59
fwrend
Yes, church sound/musician dynamics (pun intended) can be quite involved and difficult when "blending" classical and traditional - speaking of electronic and acoustic music production. Tlw gives good advice.

It looks and I'm assuming (correct me if wrong) that the organ is in the back balcony smack in the middle of the pipes and the choir perhaps sits up there too over to the left (I think I see a music stand there)?

1. Indeed, you MUST mic the choir but obviously have to be careful with bleed from those massive pipes. A space that big with a choir that small unless singing a cappella would require amplification.
2. Find the most diplomatic/loving way to work with the organist (maybe through the pastor) to begin a conversation with the problem of overpowering the congregational singing - strong accompaniment is imporatant but so is hearing the congregation singing together. Using two people - one up with the organist and one down in the pews to find what you guess is an acceptable level. It'll take some trial and error finding what's good for Sunday morning (or whenever your services are).

It's got to be done from the approach of the overall experience rather than the musicians technique/playing and getting them accustomed to the proper level for accompanying singing as opposed to performing as an instrumental Pre or Post-lude, Offertory, etc.

Just my .02 cents worth. Good luck!

EDIT: following up, the responsibility really falls on the music/choir leader/director or whomever is in charge of the music or pastor as mentioned to approach the organist. From personal experience, musicians tend not to take criticism/suggestions from the "sound dude" very well. So, do yourself a favor and go through the proper channels and gain some probably much deserved credit/respect in the process. :-))
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