• Coffee House
  • Who around here thinks the end of civilization is nigh? (p.2)
2013/05/04 16:46:32
yorolpal
They zig...I zag.  Hey, it's worked so far.
2013/05/04 17:09:17
craigb
I thought "Civilization" ended back in the 60's, no?
2013/05/04 17:11:55
The Maillard Reaction


Nov. 22, 1963 to be exact.
2013/05/04 18:30:45
Kalle Rantaaho

I think very much like Ampfixer...well... millions do.

IMO, a change is taking place, not the end. Western countries are going to lose a lot in the relatively near future. Simply, for decades already, we have been spending more than we earn, because we don't need to pay the "full price" for anything, but the debt is simmering in Asia.
Our standard of living should not be as high as it is. 

IMO, It depends very much on how fast the standard of living in China and, say, India, will rise. If it keeps skyrocketing, the production costs will rise so fast that in ten-twenty years or so it will be profitable to have some industry in the western countries as well. 

This all is just result of free capitalism, which the "preppers", AFAIK, very much support.
Asia's rise will cease when western countries can't buy their products anymore, and then things get gradually balanced.

Had there been different versions of protectionism, custom fees etc. the way it used to be, this had not been possible so quickly and in such a massive form. It's made possible by the miniscule group of very influential and wealthy people/companies who make more money in China than keeping westerners employed.

We in the rich countries are now used to consume things that are made in Asian cost environment. When we have to go back to consuming based on costs that actually give bread to the ones who do the work in Europe and North America, we'll have to accept a radical decrease of living standards. But before that comes unemployment and hard times. How hard it gets, depends much on the social security systems, because the violence of the riots is very much dependent on how desperate people are.

I believe that the "real", sustainable standard of living in  the industrialized world would be something like in the poorer countries of Europe. Only one car in the family, you eat meat only 2-3 times a week max, you don't travel by air routineously, you don't buy clothes, or anything, just because you feel like it etc. I do know most spaniards, greeks, portuguese, polish etc. would consider that kind of life luxury now. Paying nearly 10$ a gallon for gas is tough when you earn 800$ or less in a full time job, if you get paid...



2013/05/04 18:56:41
SteveStrummerUK
drewfx1


As I recall, lots of people were pretty certain the whole entire world was going to end at least 3 or 4 times over the last 2 years or so.

The idea that because a number of people believe something adds weight to that belief is a fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_majority

Oddly, given the scope of diversity on the interwebs, it seems to me that many people seek out places where they mainly encounter like minded individuals. And because of this, they tend to get strong reinforcement of their beliefs, regardless or merit, rather than dissenting opinions or skepticism towards those often highly questionable and poorly supported beliefs.

 
Interesting stuff. I've just finished reading Will Storr's excellently written and very interesting book "The Heretics: Adventures with the Enemies of Science", and a couple of the chapters deal with similar 'Confirmation Bias' ideas.
 
 
 
 
2013/05/04 18:59:57
The Maillard Reaction


I don't care what any of you believe...










50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.
2013/05/04 19:12:37
Mooch4056
mike_mccue


I don't care what any of you believe...










50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.
Harsh. But fair. 

2013/05/04 19:55:29
Jonbouy
mike_mccue


I think it depends on what you call "civilization".

It means pretending you own a house you can't afford, two cars in the driveway, access to convenience foods, enough domestic appliances to send you batty with all the noise they make and plenty of consumer electronics devices to keep you sedated in order to circumnavigate all that drudgery without complaint.
 
We've worked so hard to get civilised to this point and you feel the need to question what it is?
 
Good times.
 
;-)
2013/05/04 20:08:31
spacey
I'd be more concerned with the contract of him having rights to my land
than I would about the reasons he's telling you....brother-in-law or not.

2013/05/04 20:13:34
Mosvalve
Mooch4056


I am being politically incorrect here... But know God. A least be spiritual  and show respect and compasion and be the best person you can. Do the opposite of what the government says is good. 

Paul 
Your not being politically incorrect. Your being correct.

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