ORIGINAL: droddey
... there's this whole mythology out there of the evil corporation and lots of attitudes that verge on the communist really

So communist = bad ?

Their protecting themselves against theft of their product is the equiv of the Patriot Act.

Hmmm...and I thought the Patriot Act involved the total suspension of all citizens' rights in the name of fighting terrorism - rather similar to Winston Churchill's "man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the
handle."

So communist = bad ?

That's a matter of personal opinion of course, but if you want to be one, then you shouldn't get to be one by living off of the sweat of other people's brow who are working for it.

Hmmm...and I thought the Patriot Act involved the total suspension of all citizens' rights in the name of fighting terrorism - rather similar to Winston Churchill's "man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the
handle."

I'm not sure what your point is on that one. Are you arguing for me or against me? I was just pointing out someone else's quote, I wasn't making that assertion myself.

Waves doesn't seem to get it, I'm afraid. Just coming off their WUP disaster (driving customers
away in-droves), having to woo them back with re-bundling, WUP caps and 50% NARAS discounts,
they do this?

It's a public-relations nightmare and perpetuates the stereotype of them being
ham-handed greedy bastards. You gotta wonder who in the company comes up with these
half-assed ideas?

I'm a full-tilt paying Waves customer. But now they have me wondering if they'll be
coming to spy on me? Maybe we should institute a "no unauthorized video" policy
to thwart this kind of crap.

I'm no fan of Waves, as anyone would know who has read my whining about them. But they are completely within their rights here. These are professional studios, not individual citizens. And the places filmed are specifically not off limits to third parties. Anything done there should be considered pretty much public activity since anyone can pay to come in there. If you are ignorant enough to use stolen property in such a place, for profit, you deserve what you get. It's like stealing your next door neighbor's stuff and having a yard sale.

so..."hey... that mix sounds good....are you using cracked software??" [engineer] " no way, man... that's just not right...we're a professional outfit" "oh.... I was just wondering...didn't mean to insult you" [engineer] "that's quite alright....you look like a narc anyway... kinda wondered why you can't play your instrument" ..........oh... Milli Vanilla.... posers.... lol!

ORIGINAL: droddey

I'm no fan of Waves, as anyone would know who has read my whining about them. But they are completely within their rights here. These are professional studios, not individual citizens. And the places filmed are specifically not off limits to third parties. Anything done there should be considered pretty much public activity since anyone can pay to come in there. If you are ignorant enough to use stolen property in such a place, for profit, you deserve what you get. It's like stealing your next door neighbor's stuff and having a yard sale.

No, they're not. If they suspect that their products have been mis-appropriated, then they should contact
Interpol and have the violators prosecuted. This is different. The mere fact that it was leaked to ProSoundNews
and confirmed by the corporation says that this is a publicity stunt not unlike an IRS celebrity lynching The point
is "we're looking for you." But, in a vigilante and potentially illegal manner. All they have to do is bark up the
wrong tree and they're looking at a lawsuit.

If they reported this to law enforcement, it would be an entirely different situation to me. Do I want my
vendors spying and taking piracy matters into their own hands? Hell no.

No, they're not. If they suspect that their products have been mis-appropriated, then they should contact Interpol and have the violators prosecuted. This is different.

And Interpol would have gotten right onto that by what year? You really think that anything would have been done? And how would they have known who to point Interpol at? Should they just call up Interpol and say we think people are using our stuff without paying, go find them and make them pay us? How far do you think that would have gotten them? That's the problem with IP theft, the vendors are pretty much left to their own devices unless it's professional pirates.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. I mean Law Enforcement just doesn't work, They never protect the interests of the companies, let alone private citizens. We all need to arm ourselves and take the law into our own hands. Or at least spy on our neighbors, catch them doing something illegal, and then take action against them. I wholly favor this kind of activity, and will probably give up music just so I can catch these wrongdoers who are stealing the intellectual property of big companies who are always looking out for their customers and client's best interests. Really, isn't it is to everyone's advantage to have companies suspecting their clients, trying to trap people in their industry, and disparaging others without due process? That is the best way to run a business in these days when nearly everyone is stealing something or other.

Paul

ORIGINAL: droddey

No, they're not. If they suspect that their products have been mis-appropriated, then they should contact Interpol and have the violators prosecuted. This is different.

And Interpol would have gotten right onto that by what year? You really think that anything would have been done? And how would they have known who to point Interpol at? Should they just call up Interpol and say we think people are using our stuff without paying, go find them and make them pay us? How far do you think that would have gotten them? That's the problem with IP theft, the vendors are pretty much left to their own devices unless it's professional pirates.

I don't understand why you're condoning this practice by a private company. Imagine if this became the norm in the industry.
The Waves Spies, The SteinbergSpies ... the you name it. I know a few bad apples spoil a whole barrel .... but I'd rather not
the barrel spoil the apples from the outside in.

I know it's slower, but a private company should be dealing with theft just as a private citizen should .. one should report
it to a law enforcement agency and let the wheels of justice turn. I don't believe Waves piracy has placed the company
into such a dire situation that they need to result to vigilantism in order to survive. They do plenty well.

I don't understand why you're condoning this practice by a private company. Imagine if this became the norm in the industry.

So what if it did? What would be the outcome? People who were stealing the product would get caught, and the efforts would be going against those who were really doing the crime. I mean if you had a studio, and I paid to come in and do my album there, and I wanted to film it, would you stop me from doing that? I would imagine that most studios wouldn't care if you filmed your own sessions, right? So what possible difference would it make? The only difference would be if that studio is using stolen software.

The thing I don't get about you guys is that the entire reason that we suffer all these technical protection mechanisms is because nothing ever gets done to the people who steal IP content. They get away with it all the time, therefore the vendors have no choice but to implement mechanisms that are non-discriminating and therefore affect us all. But, when the vendors do actually finally take steps against people who really are stealing the stuff, they are condemned for it. So we damn them if they do and damn them if they don't.

I know it's slower, but a private company should be dealing with theft just as a private citizen should .. one should report it to a law enforcement agency and let the wheels of justice turn. I don't believe Waves piracy has placed the company into such a dire situation that they need to result to vigilantism in order to survive. They do plenty well.

Again, I ask. If you have no idea who is stealing it, what do you think that the authorities are going to do? They aren't going to act on a vague feeling you have that someone is stealing your stuff. That's the problem with IP theft, it leaves no evidence most of the time. And they aren't doing anything remotely vigilante. They filmed themselves going into a place where they had the right to go, and probably where they had the right to film. They weren't spying, they didn't break into any buildings or tap any phones. They just took pictures of the place that they paid to go into. I see nothing wrong with this. It's not very much different from taking pictures in public

If you believed that your neighbor was coming onto your property at night and doing something but you could never prove it, would you feel like a vigilante for setting up a camera and capturing it and then going to the police with evidence, even if that camera captured the neighbor in his own yard? If you felt that a company was poisoning the creek by your house, but no one would ever doing anything about it, but you cold prove it by taking a tour of their company and getting some pictures, would you feel like you were being a vigilante? I wouldn't, and I don't think most would.