• Software
  • OT Waves cracks down on cracks (p.7)
2007/08/13 19:17:42
jungfriend
Hey Dean, don't get me wrong. It's not the attempt to protect their intellectual property that bothers me, but only the manner in which Waves is going about it.

They paid to come into the studio. THere's no such thing as false pretenses. If they want to pay to come into the studio and stand on their head the whole time, that's their business. They paid for it. As I said above, if you went into a studio and said you wanted to film your session so that you could improve later, do you think that a legimate studio would stop you from doing so? If not, then how is it any different that Waves went in an filmed something?


I don't know what the circumstances of the undercover investigation were. The word undercover does imply that these investigators went into studios posing to be something other than investigators. If they were paying for studio time, or even inquiring about the facilities, equipment, and services under the pretext of contracting services, then they did so under false pretenses. There is such a thing as representing yourself honestly, or misrepresenting yourself and lying about your reasons for contacting the studio.

Well, that's an obvious idea. The problem is that there's no answer. There are already laws on the books, people just ignore them because they can. Can you come up with law that would make the people stealing the stuff stop?


Perhaps working on the enforcement side would suffice since the law clearly states what uses are legal and what are not. I think Studio24's idea of a "good studio rating" is an option. Or perhaps something even more effective such as an industry funded enforcement agency to police the use of licensed software in affiliation with whatever law enforcement agency has jurisdiction.

Again, an obvious thought, but how do you do it?


Sorry to state the obvious. I really think that operating under the suspicion that many studios are stealing and to target specific, or even worse, all studios, leaves them open to legal action. All that has to happen is for a legit studio to get pissed off that Waves sent undercover investigators to sniff them out.

The analogy of the drug war refers to a physical commodity and not intellectual property. The solution is obvious, but I guess it hasn't occured to the DEA yet. All they have to do is buy the stuff from the manufacturers no questions asked and destroy it. The manufacturers make their money, the supply dissapears, and it ultimately costs the taxpayers much less than trying to interdict, arrest, try, imprison, rehabilitate, educate, etc. The policy of criminalizing all aspects of the trade prevents the powers that be from effective solutions. I know they would never condone throwing federal money at drug cartels, so instead we throw away billions of dollars to fight a losing battle. And then there are drugs manufactured or grown on home turf that might become the resort of users denied their favorite high.

These issues are complex, but there are other options available to Waves. In fact if they had hired private investigators to check out studios for illegal usage of proprietary software, and the investigators were not working undercover, but identified themselves, I would have little reason to be bothered about it. They would probably not find many wrongdoers this way, but they would discover that many operators are honest and willing to cooperate, and those that don't might find that they are in violation of a EULA if a clause were introduced that stated that such investigations were ongoing.

Paul

2007/08/14 00:29:20
DonaldDuck
lol they should protect their product. If you want to use it, then pay! It's that simple. I paid for mine.. others should pay for theirs, espeically studios who are making a profit off of stolen software.
2007/08/14 00:48:21
Phoenix
ORIGINAL: droddey

I'm no fan of the dongle, but it does actually provide a very important advantage that, for instance, SONAR doesn't have. And that's that you can install your Waves plugs on multiple machines and just move the dongle around to whichever one you want to work on. That's a real world benefit that a lot of supposedly less tight fisted companies don't allow for.

It's not inconvenient at all really, so I don't have any problem with it on that front. I plugged it in and it's just plugged in and that's all there is to it. I had problems with getting some of their plugs to work, and I had suspicions that the dongle might have been at the root of the problem, but in the end it doesn't look like it was. It was just some wierdness with their installer vs. the security settings on my machine.

The only flat out down side to it is that if SONAR glitches, I can't get a stack dump in the debugger to send to the SONAR folks because the iLok driver will shut down the app if it's connected to by a debugger.



I'd say there could be more of a downside than that...I've heard some real horror stories from people who's dongles have broken or gotten lost. Maybe if they let you back up the dongle's data somehow, so that you could restore it to a new dongle if something happened...

As to Waves, I don't know how prevalent it is now, but I had heard that people would buy the software and then use the cracked version because they didn't want to deal with the inconvenience of the copy protection. So much for that idea....

Duck, you are right that people should pay for the software they use. But the pirates always find a way to crack whatever system is used.

Anyway, I'm very glad that Sonar doesn't use a dongle, and I hope it stays that way!

2007/08/14 00:53:49
droddey
I think that this limitation is not one of iLok itself, but of Wave's homegrown support of it. Once they get converted to the standard iLok system, which comments above indicate they are moving towards for the next system, then that shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to cancel a lost iLok and move your owned stuff to a new one.
2007/08/14 01:23:56
AT
I haven't followed the whole thread here but Waves is doing a PR ploy (real to the few caught, but they are hardly going to check out every studio). It is cost effective if they hit half a dozen studios and then announce it to the world (look for more such items coming to music news near you!). It will make slackers pay attention. So I wouldn't worry about Big Wave Brother coming to visit you.

If you do have a problem with intellectual copy right protection, let me know so I can put my name on your songs and try to sell them. Think about it in those terms. I don't use any Wave products and prefer to use plugs that cost less than the yearly upgrade Waves charges.
2007/08/14 01:51:34
What?
let's face it, who uses waves stuff any more? they're average at best, and i expelled them from my DAW a couple years ago. for example, i hate the voxengo stuff, but i still think it's better than most of the waves crap.

the only reason everyone's heard of them is because of warez. if their software wasn't pirated, they'd be out of business by now because they're way over-priced, not very good quality, and so loaded with DRM that it will crash even the most stable PC on earth. in fact waves sucks so bad that even if it was free (which warez are) i still wouldn't use it. if they paid me, i would use it.

waves time has come and gone, and now they're experiencing decreased revenue, so of course they blame piracy instead of where the real blame lies: they crappy software. here's hoping they die a slow agonizing death which they so richly deserve
2007/08/14 02:05:16
studio24

ORIGINAL: What?

let's face it, who uses waves stuff any more? they're average at best


Oh, they're way above average. Just listen to them.
2007/08/14 02:11:07
DonaldDuck

ORIGINAL: studio24


ORIGINAL: What?

let's face it, who uses waves stuff any more? they're average at best


Oh, they're way above average. Just listen to them.


Agreed. They are high quality plugins, but the price they charge is a bit excessive for my tastes. There are much cheaper plugins which do as well as waves. I have the Waves Platinum bundle, and I get radio-ready results with them (along with my interface, instruments, and sonar). You can't take crap and put waves on it, and then expect it to be amazing. What comes out is only as good as what you put in. No plug in can change that.
2007/08/14 02:30:45
What?

ORIGINAL: studio24


ORIGINAL: What?

let's face it, who uses waves stuff any more? they're average at best


Oh, they're way above average. Just listen to them.


listen to them? i've used them for YEARS!!! maybe you should listen to them, and compare them against the NEW crop of plugins out there instead of the junky ones you have laying around from 1998 era. the new versions of waves plugins still sound exactly the same as they did back in 1998, they haven't improved at all. i could load v1.0 and the latest, and the only difference is new lipstick on the same old pig. it seems the only reason they have different version numbers is so force people to upgrade.

why don't you give me an example of one waves plugin that you consider outstanding, and i'll give you names of 5 other brands that kick the living snot out of it, and i might even have a free one laying around that i can include on that list. waves sucks that much.
2007/08/14 03:05:31
cryophonik
OK, I'm sorry, there's no way I can be nice about this - it's got to be the Darwin Award winner for stupid posts:

ORIGINAL: What?
they're average at best


And yet more pro and hobby studios than you can name use them - well, I'm convinced.

ORIGINAL: What?
the only reason everyone's heard of them is because of warez.


Really? You actually think that Waves popularity is solely based on the fact that people learned how to crack them and sell them illegally? That's like a Toyota salesperson telling you to "Buy a Toyota - they're pretty crappy, but they're one of the most stolen vehicles in North America!"

ORIGINAL: What?
if their software wasn't pirated, they'd be out of business by now because they're way over-priced,


WTF?! If people weren't stealing their expensive products, they'd go out of business?! Do you seriously think that makes any sense?

ORIGINAL: What?
...so loaded with DRM that it will crash even the most stable PC on earth.


Funny, they've never once crashed my computer. In fact, I know very few people that have problems with Waves plugins crashing their computers.

ORIGINAL: What?
waves time has come and gone, and now they're experiencing decreased revenue.


You're basing this assertion on what now?

ORIGINAL: What?
they crappy software


Yeah, that's almost a sentence. No child left behind, eh?

ORIGINAL: What?
in fact waves sucks so bad that even if it was free (which warez are) i still wouldn't use it. if they paid me, i would use it.


If they paid you, you'd use it? That's a phenomenal business plan: pay your customers to use your overpriced, worse than average product, OR YOU"LL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

Please tell me you don't plan on breeding.
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