ORIGINAL: cryophonik
OK, I'm sorry, there's no way I can be nice about this - it's got to be the Darwin Award winner for stupid posts

no, i think your post is way more stupid than mine. are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what i said by elevating the strawman principle to a new art or are you so f-ing stupid that you honestly don't understand it? i'm guess a little of both, but mostly the later, and that your mom still ties your shoelaces. "mommy, mommy, someone disagreed with me on an online forum, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

Nice rebuttal.

ORIGINAL: What?
but mostly the later

By the way, it's "latter", not "later", genius.

Troll alert. Why are they always so brainless?

Actually, this guy reminds me of 'Briankou' or something similar, got himself banned last year - very similar 'style'.

Yeh, he's not made many posts yet, but the ones I've seen so far all kind of point towards a serious problem with anger management. A quick look at the next thread that he last responded to got:

d3wd, i did google it. guess what, unless i actually know a company name or a product name, most of what google displays is just paid adverts from the same old clown companies that you jerk offs love so much. smooch, smooch, smooch, kissing the behind of dkfh,bfd, and other such bozos.

and another:

i don't need any more friends, i've already got all i need. my penis though, is always looking around to make buddies with a vagina... which isn't going to happen here no matter what i say.

One would hope that he's actually like 16 years old, which would of course make his claims about having used Waves for years not very likely. If he's not, then that's even scarier.

Whatever you think about Waves, and there are clearly legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't use them, you can't really argue with the sonic quality. There are just as good for less, but there's not really many (any?) other places where you get the whole range of plugs that a studio might use from a single company.

Personally, I think that they would do better if they would create some sort a la carte scheme where you can buy any plugs you want, and just get a discount similar to what you get with the bundles as your collection of plugs goes up, i.e. as a customer if you buy the diamond bundle all at once, or effectively do the same over five years in a la carte chunks, you should be treated just as well in terms of discounts since you are just as good a customer in the end. The ordering process is automated, so they don't really take a bigger cost hit for you to buy things in dribs and drabs.

But I pretty much always use my Kjearhus plugs (EQ, compression, limiting) over the Waves plugs. They cost less then the Waves unflexible low end ones and provide the options of the Waves expensive flexible ones. But I love the Waves IR-L, and use their delay, doubler, gate, and imager, and soon de-esser.

ORIGINAL: DonaldDuck
others should pay for theirs, espeically studios who are making a profit off of stolen software.

Once upon a time this use to be the only focus of these operations. As long as they do their best to keep people honest but generally only prosecute those who use their products in business without paying them most folks will be on their side. But as we've seen over the last decade or so the industries are warning of FBI prosecution even in cases where there is no monetary gain which may be partly to blame for a backlash against IP enforcement.

Richard

i have the waves diamond bundle, and you know what, they could cut the number of plugins in that sack of crap by 10X. like the ones that just add more voices, those could all be one plugin and the number of voices could become a parameter. there's seperate mono & stereo plugs, etc. the compressors are poor, the reverbs mediocore, the noise correction ones have the grace of a strom tropper marching thru mud.

why i think so lowly of waves is because i used them for a long time, and during that time i've acquire a gourmet palette by slowly swapping to other software and now that i've out grown them, i really can't remember what i liked about them in the first place. the presets were poor, some lacked the proper control adjustment functionality, and others were just useless designed for some esoteric quirky purpose that i would never want.

voxengo is still improving their stuff (almost daily) and so are many other companies, but waves has remained stagnant, focusing on improving their DRM & GUI, not the processing quality.

do the tests yourself, download warez if you have to, and compare. you'll come to the same conclusions i did.

ORIGINAL: droddey

For god sakes Waves wants $1000.00 for their SSL bundle on their website. At Sweetwater it's $750.00. That's a lot of money either way! Now if they sold that bundle for $400.00 I would have purchased it a long time ago. I'm hoping to get a Dunede for a reasonble price at some point. Hopefully the price will come down or I wil find a good deal on eBay.

While I agree that they charge too much, you have to put it in perspective. I use Kjaerhus and Voxengo plugs for my core stuff (EQ, compression, limiting), but how many plugs do Kjaerhus and Voxengo have? Why don't they have as many as Waves? Why don't they support ProTools? Well, probably because they can't afford to hire the people required to create a full suite of plugs and maintain them and provide customer service for them and deploy them on multiple (very different) platforms. You can't outfit a whole studio from either of them, but you can from Waves, because they have the resources to hire the programmers to create a full line.

And Kjaerhus and Voxengo are single programmer outfits, AFAIK, and if anything happens to those two guys, everything you've invested in them is a waste because they'll die as products. That's fine for us in a home studio, but it's not for a professional studio. They need to know that the company will remain viable and will continue to expand their offerings. That costs money, and in a fairly low volume business it costs even more money per unit. And the research to create new and powerful new plugs, to gather high quality impulse files, support new platforms, etc... is not cheap. Companies like K and V are able to make a basic living and operate a small company, but they can't expand significantly at those prices as the volumes that these types of products sell at.

I can tell you now why Voxengo don't support pro-tools. Aleksey has tried to get in touch with Digi about supporting protools and they're just not interested.

It's Digis fault these plugs are not on protools, and it's obvious - these plugs would undercut digis own stuff and if folks got used to them they might switch to sonar/reaper/cubase- whatever.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

But as we've seen over the last decade or so the industries are warning of FBI prosecution even in cases where there is no monetary gain which may be partly to blame for a backlash against IP enforcement.

It's still illegal, even if there's no monetary gain. If it was basically OK for anyone to steal IP content if they weren't going to use it to make money, then the music and movie industries would be over, and most of the software industry. In actual fact, for most IP content, it's non-monetary gain theft that's the real danger. Waves is more oriented towards pro usage, but most of the music, movie, and software industries depend on end user sales. So yeh, they are very much interested in busting people who steal their stuff for personal use.

voxengo is still improving their stuff (almost daily) and so are many other companies, but waves has remained stagnant, focusing on improving their DRM & GUI, not the processing quality.

I like Voxengo's stuff, and I've spent as much with them as with Waves, but to claim that Waves remains stagnant or doesn't sound top notch is fairly silly on the face of it. They've put out a couple new packages in the last month that I can think of, which probably include more plugs than Voxengo's entire lineup. And they are widely used in professional studios, by people who I'm sure have already forgotten more than you'll likely ever know.

like the ones that just add more voices, those could all be one plugin and the number of voices could become a parameter. there's seperate mono & stereo plugs, etc.

It's to save processing power. An EQ pre-compiled to only have X number of filters, can do only X number of filters with maximum efficiency. And one that's set up to do mono, can just do mono only and save processing overhead, instead of having a lot of conditional jumps in the code to deal with variable numbers of components. So this is a good thing, but someone with your many years of experience would know this.

the compressors are poor, the reverbs mediocore,

Their convolution reverb is excellent. I love it and that's all I use now. TrueVerb is good enough for that type of synthetic reverb I guess, but I don't think I'd ever use a non-convolution anymore at this point.

They are good plug-ins, but they have become much more difficult to install, authorize, etc.