Hey guys,
I've been trying my best to learn more about reverb, focusing on the depth aspect. I'm a bit confused about predelay.

I've read that higher the value of predelay, the closer the object sounds.
I've also read contradicting info of when the predelay is less it's closer.

What am I missing?

Right now I am mixing a song with a rock band up front, a string section behind them, and a brass section even further behind the strings.

Any help appreciated.

Pre-Delay in reverbs usually means how much time between the hit of the sourcetrack and when the reverb starts.

When you hit a snare in a large space, say a indoor stadium, you'll hear some"Pre Delay" before you hear the ambiance of the space.

Now think of hitting a snare in a small bathroom, there won't be very much "Pre Delay" before you hear the ambiance of the space.


More predelay the larger the space.

HTH

Tom

I too am in the clouds ...

Reverb has redeemed many a dry vocal via delay, pre-delay, studio-verb, and other 3-D concepts that take me days to understand well.

I suppose your brass section could stand a bit of pre-delay, delay, or reverb to help it 'stay back' in the mix. But your ears (and/or your best friend's ears) will ultimately decide.

I oft use 'delay(s)' (double tracks) on my vocals to give 'richness' and 'chorus' effects (but Voxengo-Voxformer miraculously does sidechain-compression ... which redeems vocals in mixes).

Albeit, reverb or delay might help make the strings and brass sink back in your mixes. If nothing else, distorting those instruments with mild verb might dull them enough to help push them back.

I'm hoping John, Yep, or Bitflipper may shed some light.

I guess I wasn't clear enough in my definition of pre delay, seeing how your in the clouds.

The Pre Delay setting on a reverb unit, specifies the time between the source material and when the reverb kicks in.



Source(...................predelay..........) reverb


HTH

Tom

ORIGINAL: Philip

I too am in the clouds ...

Reverb has redeemed many a dry vocal via delay, pre-delay, studio-verb, and other 3-D concepts that take me days to understand well.

I suppose your brass section could stand a bit of pre-delay, delay, or reverb to help it 'stay back' in the mix. But your ears (and/or your best friend's ears) will ultimately decide.

I oft use 'delay(s)' (double tracks) on my vocals to give 'richness' and 'chorus' effects (but Voxengo-Voxformer miraculously does sidechain-compression ... which redeems vocals in mixes).

Albeit, reverb or delay might help make the strings and brass sink back in your mixes. If nothing else, distorting those instruments with mild verb might dull them enough to help push them back.

I'm hoping John, Yep, or Bitflipper may shed some light.

I just use the presets until I find one I like :-(

Hi Philip-

(but Voxengo-Voxformer miraculously does sidechain-compression ... which redeems vocals in mixes)

Well, that's an intriguing tidbit! I've never used side-chaining, didn't even realize I could with Voxformer -- can you expand on that a little?

Thanks-

-Susan

ORIGINAL: scaryjapan

Hey guys,
I've been trying my best to learn more about reverb, focusing on the depth aspect. I'm a bit confused about predelay.

I've read that higher the value of predelay, the closer the object sounds.
I've also read contradicting info of when the predelay is less it's closer.

What am I missing?

There's also the general idea the reflections closely attached to a source give the impression of depth (or the source being 'back in the room.) Pre delay represents the nearest wall so for a given moderate size reverb, adding predelay it is possible to bring the source closer. The effect can be of the room also getting larger, but depth can be both wet/dry mix and 'close reflections. You can have 'intimate in a very large room by virtue of the first reflections being far away in their natural state.

I didn't do that very well..
So from another direction- take that same very large room (with it's distant walls)- in order to place the source 'back into this large room, make some reflections (say from the floor which can be 'near) arrive at the same time as the source.

As others have mentioned, predelay determines the onset time of the reverb. Generally speaking, values of less than 40 ms will sound like the reverb began at the same time the source itself sounded.

For percussive sound sources like drums or percussion, I would suggest predelay times of 35ms or less. Otherwise, you will encounter a secondary 'slap' when the reverb speaks. The onset of the reverb sound will likely out of time with the original source thereby creating rhythmic confusion. Why would you want to use predelay at all on percussion? This allows the dry sound of the percussion to speak unprocessed for an almost imperceptible moment in time before the sound starts to swim in reverb. It sounds a touch cleaner and not quite so 'swimmy".

For more legato sound sources like vocals, strings, etc., you can get away with ridiculous amounts of predelay. Using longer predelay values, say 75-150 ms, will allow you to turn up the reverb more without smearing the sound of the vocal.

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi Philip-

(but Voxengo-Voxformer miraculously does sidechain-compression ... which redeems vocals in mixes)

Well, that's an intriguing tidbit! I've never used side-chaining, didn't even realize I could with Voxformer -- can you expand on that a little?

Thanks-

-Susan

Susan, it seems the side-chaining compressor in voxformer is 'especially'(?) relevent for de-essing:
See: http://www.voxengo.com/doc/voxformer/

The "Listen Output" switch allows you to select which signal to listen to. The default "Wet" option enables full effect output. The "Dry" option enables bypass mode. "De-S Flt" option enables monitoring of the side-chain signal being fed to the de-esser.