Classes start next monday so I hope I can get enough help and make my decision as soon as possible. Luckily they've been slow and it hasnt been bad for me, but I've got a movie and a vidio game I'm scoring and I haven't been able to do anything since a bit before fall semesters started.

I've been dealing with soft synths not getting out any sound after a sudden Sonar crash, despite everything else working and everything haveing worked perfectly before. No one seems to know what's going on though, so though I'm still dealing with slow and near-pointless cakewalk support, it's time to start looking at an audio upgrade.
~~~~

I hardly know anything about audio stuff and soudn cards and what nots. Totally lost, no clue, and though I'm sure everyone else says it, I did look through topics and searhed, but I coudln't find many that were recent enough and fit my use.

I already really did not want to have to get a sound card already, due to cost and no apparent need, but i'm being forced to obvously. Going off some basic questions I found on a site:

• Budget: My budget is around $100 - 150. 200 max; hope i don't need to. I'm hoping the fact that i've been just fine with with integrated for at least 2 years, on a 6 year old computer and on this 5 month old computer (until something went wrong) mean that I really don't need something expensive.
  
• How many inputs do you plan to record simultaneously: ?? does this mean like midi and some audio thing at same time? I'd most liekly record one thing at a time. I don't see how I could do more than one.
  
• Will that number change in your future? highly unlikely
  

What type of inputs do you need?

• Do you need analog only? what would analog be? RCA jacks? would be nice, to hook up boombox or something but, defintely would only be a bonus.
  
• Do you need line input? wat?
  
• Do you need Mic inputs? High quality mic input would be a nice bonus. Maybe 2 for stereo. That's only for looking ahead because I don't have a recording mike other than an ancient one I used to use with boombox and a computer mic. Maybe someday I'll get a couple mics; I may want to record certain noises for SFX in projects unrelated to music, or to record myself playing violin or something if I feel I need it for a piece. Oh, and not having an 88key keyboard means I've recorded myself on tape playing piano. Being able to hook up the boombox to record cassette tape to computer with minimal quality loss would be great. This is not important right now though, so if it means getting something more expensive, no. It would be a bonus, but it's the no. 1 thing I'd want as a bonus. :D
  
• Do you need phantom power? wat?
  
• Digital (i.e. SPDIF)? don't know what that would be either.
  
• MIDI? Midi I/O would be great to free up a usb port, since I've got a midi to USB cable from my keyboard to computer. However, that's all I have, so MIDI I/O would only be GREAT if a midi cable is included. Otherwise it's just a bonus if I ever decide to get a midi cable.
  
• PCI, Cardbus (PCMCIA), Firewire, USB? PCI is faster and better right? I just want what's best, and what's cheapest. But I only have a PCIe 1x free. Everything's PCIe.
  

Although I still don't have a 5.1 speaker set and am only useing a pair of speakers, i would hope the sound card support high quality sound and 5.1 audio. I would assume that's given if even integrated souind can be like that. I would also assume that latency is going to be better.

I'm an orchestral composer, fim and classical, work only with soft synths, any audio is....you know, not recorded by me. I use EWQL SO complete using PLAY, Sonar 6 Studio Edition 64bit. Using Vista 64bit, with 6 GB Ram, quad-core cpu, and realtek HD integrated audio, 6 usb ports....all used up. Desktop PC, HP Elite m930f Would need to get a USB hub. Got firewire free, and only ONE PCIe 1x free.
Basically, the only reason I want a soundcard is so that it WORKS, and can be reliable, unllike what i've been using so far. So as long as it's better than what I have, and I'm not losing any features of what I have now, then I'll be good. Even latencey wasn't much an issue for me, but I'm sure a soundcard is going to be better and will thus streamline recording a part to existing music without having to deal with 300ms latecny.

Thank you; I hope you guys can give me some good suggestions that fits with what I do. I hope to be able to get back to writing music soon.

looking back to a few of my earlier topics, here are some suggestions they've given.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA1EX/

not sure what that even is...looks like an input converter thing, not a sound card sort of thingy. :P

and I can't find the other but it was some $200 usb external interface that looked like a whole lot of stuff I don't understand and didn't need. o.o

and btw, hey, if you think my best option is usb, alright.... it just means i'll need to get a USB hub too.

Col.,

that is a digital in, with a headphone and line RCA out. Don't know what you are monitoring over - but I think you would end up needing conversion in if you plan on doing any acoustic recording.

You might want to look at the M- Audio transit. I had (have if I can find it) one and it worked well for $80. Had mini-plugs in and out, and could do digital, too. It sounded fine. It was USB 1, but could play and record audio at 48 kHz . It might be a better investment - tho check to see if it has vista drivers.

There are also some stuff from Emu and I know that Yamaha had a stereo i/o unit which probably used their good convertor

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D64703%252526CTID%25253D207900,00.html

ORIGINAL: AT

Don't know what you are monitoring over

hm?

You might want to look at the M- Audio transit.

Isn't that some portable input thing? at least it's what it looks like.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D64703%252526CTID%25253D207900,00.html

that thing seems old because i had a hard time finding it online anywhere, and requirements said XP SP1. I finally foud it selling somewhere...$400.

I looked up EMU stuff to look into this some more, try to understand what i may be going for, but I don't get it really.

http://www.emu.com/products/welcome.asp?category=505&

Digital Audio Systems? why do they call them that, what does it mean? And what's with these huge boxes anyway; I've always thought they're for all these diferent audio stuffs contorls and knobs for people who record stuff. And then one that costs $100 has these cables on it, and the next one up...are those TWO cards? Takes up 2 PCI slots? and looks liek same inputs so what's the dfference? Aren't there regular soundcards anymore?

Or, are Digital Audio Systems soundcards + different inputs? Is that what i'm looking for, for my situation, upgrading from integrated audio to a "sound card"?

This is another site I was looking at: http://homerecording.beaglesound.com/9.html
It mentions the EMUs I was looking....says the 0404 is difficult to set up for a beginner?
I'll take a look at those m-audio.....

Firewire and PCMCIA (cardbus) audio interfaces aren't really "cheap". These are relatively more expensive than their PCI counterparts...although you may still be able to find a good deal on used stuff if you have time to search.

Standard MIDI cables being bundled along with audio-interface cards aren't really that common. Usually, standard MIDI In/Out cables (i.e. not the MIDI-to-USB cables) are bundled with "Teach Me Piano" software series like those from Voyetra/Turtlebeach OR MIDI In/Out cables are bought separately.

The need for standard MIDI In/Out cables would depend on your existing MIDI-compatible keyboard. Some keyboards BOTH have standard MIDI In/Out ports at the back/side of the unit AND USB-MIDI (Type B) interface as well (a good example of these would be some models of Casio Privia 88-key digital pianos and keyboards...as these are the budget-oriented keyboards/digital pianos that provide BOTH MIDI connectivities).

Depending on the particular model of audio-interface card or break-out device, a phantom power might be provided as part of the features. Generally speaking, the more features and/or connectivity options an audio-interface card has, the more expensive it becomes.

You might also want to consider looking into these:

Echo Digital Audio interface products

I currently have an M-audio PCI-interface audio-card and I use virtual instruments (Garritan's Personal Orchestra and Ivory) with it as well, and based on personal experience and coupled with various users experiences in the M-audio forum as well, there are still "clicks n pops" issues being heard and reported. I've tried re-installing the card into all the available PCI slots in my motherboard and still the "clicks n pops". Tried disabling Windows XP services not necessary for DAW PC (digital audio workstation) use and still the "clicks n pops". Disabled on-board audio and LAN chip in my motherboard's BIOS settings, but still the "clicks n pops". I even re-installed my drivers, audio-MIDI software and as a last resort...reformatted and re-installed my OS and audio-MIDI softwares to no avail. Tried everything suggested both by the M-audio tech support and other users but still the "clicks n pops"...I don't know, but who knows?...You might get lucky with your current setup or PC and may never experience this problem.

To research sound cards... use Beagle's site ... look up soundcards: http://www.beaglesound.com/

Now to the basics: If you have a desktop computer, you can find a PCI card based interfcae like the EMU-0404 for under $100. It has midi and audio in/out and will work fine. Check EBAY for used interfaces. I sold my old 0404 there about a year ago for $75.... so deals are to be had.

If you plan on doing game and movie scoring I would HIGHLY recommend the Focusrite Saffire Firewire interface. It has R&L audio in (hi & low impedence) line & instrument levels, midi in/out digital in/out....and 8 programable outputs for the surround sound needed for games and movies. I was told that was the design purpose for this interface. It also has onboard digital signal processing controlled by a software interface. In other words.... this is one sweet puppy. I have one and love it. I have 4 outputs programmed for my studio monitoring....

You can record 2 channels at a time, it has phantom power for using condensor mics, uses FIREWIRE, AND... supports 7.1 audio.

It now sells new for about $250 at Guitar Center.... well worth every penny.

http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire/

Sp3cre,

ORIGINAL: Sp3ctre18

ORIGINAL: AT

Don't know what you are monitoring over

hm?

You might want to look at the M- Audio transit.

Isn't that some portable input thing? at least it's what it looks like.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D64703%252526CTID%25253D207900,00.html

that thing seems old because i had a hard time finding it online anywhere, and requirements said XP SP1. I finally foud it selling somewhere...$400.

I looked up EMU stuff to look into this some more, try to understand what i may be going for, but I don't get it really.

http://www.emu.com/products/welcome.asp?category=505&

Digital Audio Systems? why do they call them that, what does it mean? And what's with these huge boxes anyway; I've always thought they're for all these diferent audio stuffs contorls and knobs for people who record stuff. And then one that costs $100 has these cables on it, and the next one up...are those TWO cards? Takes up 2 PCI slots? and looks liek same inputs so what's the dfference? Aren't there regular soundcards anymore?

Or, are Digital Audio Systems soundcards + different inputs? Is that what i'm looking for, for my situation, upgrading from integrated audio to a "sound card"?

This is another site I was looking at: http://homerecording.beaglesound.com/9.html
It mentions the EMUs I was looking....says the 0404 is difficult to set up for a beginner?
I'll take a look at those m-audio.....

I guess you are listening over the computer speakers, then. Not ideal, but if it sounds good on them, it will probably sound good elsewhere.

From what I understand you are looking to hear your soundsynths from the computer and want better quality than your onboard card delivers, with maybe some audio recording if you want.

The Transit will allow you to hook up your computer speakers (or any other amp/speakers with the proper cables - 1/8 inch to RCA or 1/4 inch). It also has an stereo analog input in case you want to record anything with a line (such as an external synth or a mic from a preamp). It is about as simple as it gets - replacing your computer's soundcard with something a little more high-fi. It connects to the computer over USB - USB 1, which is the slow version but fine for simple audio in and out. It is old, but cheap and worked fine for me which is why I recommended it. It is portable, but I used it for my desktop before I upgraded. I had an Audigy card and used it for MIDI i/o since the Transit doesn't include MIDI; I simply used it for audio i/o. I don't know if they have updated the drivers to VISTA, but the XP worked fine.

The Emu stuff is as good as any of the other cheaper stuff but I haven't used it. It probably uses 2 PCI slots with a daughter card, which doesn't use a PCI slot pre se but needs access though the rear plate. I had an Audigy card with the same set up - needed an open back plate for the midi in out. From what I understand the mixer is complex to set up for the 0404. For output the EMU you were looking at should be good, but it doesn't have any audio inputs from the glance I gave it.

A hundred dollars is about the cheapest you can get a card for. As others said above, you can use a PCI slot and varients, USB or FireWire. USB and Firewire use more computer resources than slots, but even on older machines that shouldn't be a problem (and you don't have to worry about upgrading - I've got several different dual head video cards that couldn't be put into my next computer since they lacked the correct kind of slot).

I suggested the Yamaha since the convertors/preamps should be first class (they came from their uppper range units). I thought it might be cheaper now since it is discontinued, which is also why it is XP only I guess.

You might want to give the Scotsman review a look - I talked about some of the aspects of lower end gear. It is old, but you might find some of it revelent. It aint been updated for years - I can't even remember how to get on it to add/edit anymore.

http://bnoirfilm.tripod.com/

good luck! and let us know if you have any more questions.

ORIGINAL: Sp3ctre18

• Budget: My budget is around $100 dollars. I'm hoping the fact that i've been just fine with with integrated for at least 2 years, on a 6 year old computer and on this 5 month old computer (until something went wrong) mean that I really don't need something expensive.
  
• How many inputs do you plan to record simultaneously: ?? does this mean like midi and some audio thing at same time? I'd most liekly record one thing at a time. I don't see how I could do more than one.
  
• Will that number change in your future? highly unlikely
  

What type of inputs do you need?

• Do you need analog only? what would analog be? RCA jacks? would be nice, to hook up boombox or something but, defintely would only be a bonus.
  
• Do you need line input? wat?
  
• Do you need Mic inputs? High quality mic input would be a nice bonus. Maybe 2 for stereo. That's only for looking ahead because I don't have a recording mike other than an ancient one I used to use with boombox and a computer mic. Maybe someday I'll get a couple mics; I may want to record certain noises for SFX in projects unrelated to music, or to record myself playing violin or something if I feel I need it for a piece. Oh, and not having an 88key keyboard means I've recorded myself on tape playing piano. Being able to hook up the boombox to record cassette tape to computer with minimal quality loss would be great. This is not important right now though, so if it means getting something more expensive, no. It would be a bonus, but it's the no. 1 thing I'd want as a bonus. :D
  
• Do you need phantom power? wat?
  
• Digital (i.e. SPDIF)? don't know what that would be either.
  
• MIDI? Midi I/O would be great to free up a usb port, since I've got a midi to USB cable from my keyboard to computer. However, that's all I have, so MIDI I/O would only be GREAT if a midi cable is included. Otherwise it's just a bonus if I ever decide to get a midi cable.
  
• PCI, Cardbus (PCMCIA), Firewire, USB? PCI is faster and better right? I just want what's best, and what's cheapest.
  

$100? That's not much to work with. Honestly, I don't know what you can expect to get for $100 but I agree - eBay might be your best bet to stretch your money.

I can answer some of the other questions though:

How many inputs: audio interfaces are usually classified (to a certain extent) by how many channels of audio you can feed into them at once. At very least, you should be able to record two channels of analog audio (stereo, or left and right input). As you progress up the ladder of sophistication and cost, you can expect to be able to record anywhere from 4 to ... I don't know, 32 channels of audio or more simulateously. If you're not planning on recording rock bands or orchestras in your living room then just shoot for the most you think you'd ever need (sounds like you could get by with two channels). When we talk analog, we're talking about how many microphones you would want to set up at any given time (or analog outputs from keyboards, samplers, etc). I have a 16 channel interface here in my studio (I can record from 16 different microphones at once). That has served me well for many years.

Analog inputs can be either the typical RCA home stereo type or 1/4" instrument jacks or the XLR microphone style connectors. You may find any or all of those included on some of the better interfaces. Again, you would choose depending on what you expect to be recording from. Doesn't hurt to have options.

Line input means signals from tapes decks, effects units, preamps, direct boxes, etc. If it's not a microphone or a guitar, then it's probably line level.

Mic inputs are obvious. Do you expect to sing or record someone playing an instrument? If not, you don't need any mic preamps. Phantom power would be needed if you expect to use condenser microphones. Phantom power is a way of providing power to the microphone from the mic cable. Usually 48volts DC. Again, if there are no XLR mic inputs, you won't see phantom power included on the device.

Digital inputs are needed if you plan to record from gear that has digital outputs. Could be SPDIF, ADAT, Firewire, USB, or who knows what. SPDIF is an older form of digital signal that is only two channels. The connectors look like typical RCA style jacks but the cables you buy are different than regular RCA type cables. You'll have to research the other forms of digital signals.

MIDI is if you plan to use external synths or samplers or a MIDI controller to play the soft synths (how do you do that now?)

PCI (and the other's you mentioned) are PC interfaces to the motherboard. An internal soundcard would plug into a PCI slot (for example). And external audio interface might plug into a USB or Firewire port on the back or side of your computer. Most of the little two channel interfaces you see use USB ports. The better audio interfaces use Firewire (handles more channels of audio).

Hope this helps - Have fun shopping. A hundred bucks ain't gonna get you much more than a Soundblaster (I think).

ORIGINAL: Sp3ctre18

This is another site I was looking at: http://homerecording.beaglesound.com/9.html

I believe the illustrious author of that article is a member of this forum. Look for the guy who bears a striking resemblance to Shiloh the dog.

$100 is pretty tight for a professional grade soundcard, but like kriz said, ebay can be your friend. You can get a M-Audio Delta 1010LT which will have all the features you mentioned. I've never used one, but there are some happy customers on this forum.

Pathos mentioned Echo soundcards. Now I can vouch for them. Rock solid and great customer support; find any Echo user and they'll tell you the same. But they generally don't come with built in mic preamps (except for the Echo Mona but HANDS OFF, the next one on ebay is mine!). However if you don't plan on doing any microphone recording, or if you're willing to buy a separate mic preamp, the Echo Layla 24/96 will do the trick very nicely. Lots of Layla users around here. And they can usually be found on ebay for under $100.

Good luck!

yeppers! that's my site just like the duck says! and yes, while the EMU0404 is a great card, the patchmix software has been difficult for some users to set up. in your price range the EMU0404 and the M-audio delta 44 would be my recommendations (either can be had for $100 for the PCI version - that's for a DESKTTOP PC only), but again as others have pointed out, you still need a preamp for mics and all the other considerations brought up. a small mixer like the behringer xenyx 802 would provide 2 mic pres with phantom power for $60 more.