ORIGINAL: nollies1

ORIGINAL: chefmike8888

512 seems to be the most stable for me on my set up.

thanks mike... was 512 set on your sound card or are you referring to the rec/playback buffer settings in SONAR? Also, has anyone noticed a 'general rule' even if they can't really be correlated? For instance, do you always want 2x more I/O buffer than what you have set on your card? stuff like that? Or lol am I thinking about this stuff too simple-mindedly?

I'm referring to the I/O Buffer under Options/Audio/Advanced. And no, there are no sure shot equations like 2x a certain setting and one part of this setting. Even If we had the same exact PC - software - hardware set up, the settings would most likely still be different for each PC.

Mike

OK...

I have systematically gone through all combinations between what I can set on the card and what I can set in SONAR...well, I went up to 1024 on the card and 768 in SONAR... all present the same symptoms of mild but noticeable drops.

I kept my eye on the CPU and Disk % usage and they are always quite low (no more than a FEW %). I am beginning to wonder if there is another cause.

Prior to me trying to figure out this buffer size issue I have also: a) set windows for "best performance"; b) got a 'dedicated' firewire adapter (for the project mix); and c) all the random stuff like different cables, disabled IRQs, unplugged the cord to my laptop, etc. Oh and I reinstalled the software too, and all updates as well.

Any other thoughts on how to troubleshoot? Thanks

Do you have an anti virus program running or maybe another app? Have you tried turning off your wireless connection. How about trying WDM/KS instead of ASIO.

Mike

I'll go and try that stuff tonight... but seriously stuff like wireless and anti virus is enough to do it?

WDM is certainly an option, haven't messed too much with it, primarily out of ignorance I suppose. The rationalle was more or less
1) Nobody seems to like WDM with SONAR, every thread I've read seems to suggest ASIO is preferred.
2) If WDM is used in SONAR, then (if I recall) adjusting the buffer of the sound card no longer has an influence... because WDM uses a "native windows driver", the name of which (or any possible settings to tinker with) I have yet to find. Any takers on that?
3) The latency calculated by the profiler is never at or lower than that obtained with ASIO

A few other things I was told may be worth trying:
- Use "ASIO4ALL" driver... I guess it's downloadable on the web somewhere?
- Delete the AUD.ini file altogether

One thing I HAVE done that is a bit eyebrow raising:
- Installed Reaper, used ASIO driver, and default (i.e. didn't do anything) settings
- Result: PERFECT. Not a single hiccup.
- BUT I don't know how to tell the project mix to work with reaper. And besides, it doesn't really solve the SONAR problem, just negates it.

Any thoughts?

First off, yes your anti virus and wireless can cause that.
And I use WDM on my set up. It works much better for me, ASIO causes too many pops and clicks for me.
Quite a few of us get better results with WDM. One is not better then the other is all a matter of what works for you.
WDM is still better then ASIO4ALL. ASIO4ALL is a WDM Wrapper so it actually uses WDM it just makes your system see it as ASIO.
ASIO4ALL is generally used to get the on-board sound chip working.


Sonar 8.3.1 PE.
Dell Precision M90, Intel Core 2 DUO, 1.66 GHz, 2GB RAM, 80GB HD @ 7200RPM. XP Pro SP3
Glyph GT050- 320GB HD @ 7200RPM
Mackie Onyx 1640 w/FireWire.
And a bunch of other stuff.


Mike

Another thing to check: are your Playback Timing Master and Record Timing Master settings (Options-Audio->General) pointed to your sound card?
Bill B.

OK here's the update... it's not good and I am trying my best to be patient but it is starting to get to me.

This is latest of what I did do:
-Set windows for "best performance"
-Turned off wireless (tried both “disconnected” from the network, and physically “disabled”)
-Confirmed (thanks bvid) that SONAR is pointing to the right sound card
-Tried both ASIO and WDM… with WDM for fun I even dragged that bar all the way to “safe”… was like in the seconds lol for latency

OK now here’s what I didn’t/couldn’t do:
-With the newly purchased “dedicated” firewire adapter w/ TI chipset… it shares IRQs with things that I cannot disable… only uninstall… but I can’t do that. Things like a) video card (won’t see screen); b) PCIs on the motherboard (don’t wanna risk that!); and c) SATA controller (definitely don’t wanna risk that)

I am by far no expert, but given the amount of messing around with this stuff… I still think it may be some other issue I am having, b/c it’s always the same sounding drops no matter what I do to adjust. For example, if I go back to the onboard or original firewire adapter (which shares IRQs with things I CAN disable)… no difference. Things like that. I mean, it’s not like I’m on an old 386 trying to do this. Ugh.

The other weird thing is that (at least the one time I tried, and only did it with one track) Reaper works fine. My only issue is that I don’t know how to get the project mix to talk to Reaper. Oh, and I’d have to spend more money.

Is there any way I can do some type of diagnostic to confirm that the project mix itself isn’t fried or something? Perhaps I can get lucky and see if a buddy of mine will let me connect it to his system. Or maybe it's fine given Reaper had no problems.

It's a shame I cannot use this thing, it sounded so awesome in the ads and two-grand ago. Sorry, I guess I'm starting to sound grumpy, I will behave.

yes nollies1 Reaper is very efficient... it just sucks compared to Sonar as an editing app I think.
But the fact that it works so well for actual recording is an educator to me regarding Sonar. I have both- I use Reaper only for vari-speed but I can clearly see the difference in the way it records audio and uses the cpu. I think Sonar is so far heads and tails above Reaper as a recording/production app there's just no comparison- but I constantly have problems with simply recording audio and having it placed in sync with other tracks. It's a problem- a huge problem- for me. Yet it's better than anything else by far (Sonar). I miss my analog multitrack bad...

And bitflipper I notice and really appreciate that all your posts are so very fact-based. You do a good job bringing technical details and accuracy to the forum. Thanks!

There really should be more exact science in the wild zone of how many buffers and milliseconds of latency to use. There have to be exact and repeatable values that are best with certain apps and certain set-ups. It's such an important parameter. Someday we need to get it right!

OK. here is the update. also, for anyone curious enough, or especially for ANYONE NEW TO THIS silly computer stuff feel free to read this as well and share my pain lol:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1702303&mpage=1&key=�

So... I got annoyed that sonar wouldn't work and for whatever reason reaper was like install, open, hit record, and wholla... no problem.

but i was determined to figure out the sonar issue over time, as i just didn't feel that switching to reaper really 'solved the problem', it just negated it.

anyways here's the skinny. i was able to get rid of my 2, 1 GB ram sticks at work in exchange for 2, 2 GB sticks. for some reason it only claims 3 GB ram, but someone here at my work claims that's because it's not a 64 bit system (only vista is?). whatever that means. if it really only can take 3 i don't know why work would have let me install them. so maybe that extra 1 is doing something... but who knows.

nevertheless i then went back to sonar and started messing with it again thinking i might get lucky. selected wdm/ks driver, this time I checked "enable read caching" and "enable write caching", no idea what that means but on a whim i said screw it let's try it (hadn't done that before... or, i don't think so at least).

works like a charm, at least as tested (six tracks simultaneously active). out of a number (5 or 6) live takes there were 100% no pops/crackles and it only crashed once on me. when it did, i just exited sonar, opened it back up, hit record... and all was fine again. guess it's just going to happen from time to time.

call me crazy, but I am content, not at all because i think reaper stinks, but for whatever reason i just feel our needs are better met in sonar. i'll leave it at that. now on to another post about the metronome (check it out if you can).

Im sure you have allready but make sure that the projectmix is in sonar mode and that you have installed the latest firmware and drivers from m-audio.