• SONAR
  • Changing tempo of a midi recorded at the wrong tempo? (p.2)
2010/02/25 13:14:02
Psalmist35
Danny,
I've done this many times to piano and drums.  My suggestion may not be the best but it works.
 
Go to the note that is the downbeat (Count one) of each individual measure starting at the beginning of the song.  Press Cntrl-m and set that note to beat one of that measure, for this discussion say it's measure one beat one.  Then go to the note that is the downbeat of the second measure and repeat (cntrl-m beat one measure 2) to the end of the song.  If there is no note for count one you can either set Now Time where count one occurs or use the next available down beat.
 
HTH,
Rich
 
Edit to add:  Once you do this you will be able to quantize and/or change the tempo as you see fit.
2010/02/25 13:32:52
Psalmist35
Opps!
Sorry I'm at work and trying to remember everything doesn't always work. 
 
Once you've set all the down beats Sonar will obviously follw this tempo map.  However if you want to change the tempo to something different you will need to open the Tempo map.  Most likely you will notice the tempo jumping all over the place, unless of course this drummer has an incredible sense of timing.  Anyway, the next step would be to click the eraser tool and erase the tempo map.  Then you will need to manually set the tempo of the first measure to the desired tempo. 
 
I believe this will give you the desired results.  Like I said, this may not be the best method but it has worked flawlessly for me.  I'm sure others may offer other suggestions.
 
Rich
2010/02/25 17:56:07
fitzj
Audio snap is very good for this. The latest version works really well and I see a very good step by step on here a few days ago.
Go to the techniques forum and you will see the problems I had with this. The jargon got me. But it works but its not that easy. The guys were light years ahead of me.
2010/02/25 19:16:13
dmbaer
Danny Danzi


The file he sent was recorded in real time without adjusting his tempo to the correct time in the Sonar work file. He has it at 98.50, yet when I tap using the metronome, it comes out to about 116 bpm.
 
In other words, you're saying he recorded it with some arbitrary tempo setting but made no attempt to line up his performance with the internal measure/beat postitions?  If so, then why do you even care?  Just do your thing with the existing MIDI events as they lay.
 
If it is critical to map this to a MIDI file that has valid note-on placement with respect to measures and beats, you could do process/fit-to-improve ... but only after getting a click track from the original that has exactly one note on per beat.  That will generate a tempo map.  Then you have to get the MIDI notes in the original quantized.  This'll probably be messy and a lot of work before it's all over.
 
Also, look at process/fit-to-time.  That might get you close enough for your purposes ... especially if the tempo of the orignal holds pretty steady start to finish.
 
Edit:  About one second after I clicked "post message" I realized the fit-to-time thing is not probably not the right solution in this case ... at least I can't think of how to make it help.  So, never mind about that suggestion.
2010/02/26 12:51:04
Danny Danzi
LOL you guys rule. Thank you all so much for taking the time to give me some things to try.
 
brundle: no worries, I know how much of a pain it can be to post stuff you've already posted. Thanks for the links and the explantions. I was hoping this would be a little easier to be honest, but it appears there is no easy way to do it.
 
papa: thanks for the offer there. I nearly took you up on that thinking maybe between the 2 of us, we might have been able to figure something out...maybe discover something new. Then it hit me...which is pretty much what dmbaer mentioned.."why do I even care"? LOL!! Which is kinda true...I'm just a perfectionist and felt, since the guy will be totally retracking all his instrumentation, I could fix a few of the snerts inside the drum part and it sure would be helpful if it was at the right time and could be quantized a bit. But he's not paying me for that, so I shouldn't really worry about it. I just don't like to let things go when they are a bit loose and I can help fix them a bit. Thanks again.
 
Psalm: I'll definitely log that info as well as what the others mentioned, thanks for that!
 
fitzj: my first idea was to use AS for this in hopes it might be a quick fix. My dealings with it have only been for audio though, and when I right clicked on the midi expecting to see AS show up in the menu like it does when you do it for audio, I had assumed that it wouldn't work on a midi file due to my lack of knowledge on how to use it. Thanks!
 
dmbaer: you're right in what you said. As I said above, I just try to deliver the best work I can and really wanted to tighten this thing up for the guy. I was thinking the whole time "if this is just something easy that won't take much time, I'd rather attempt to deliver the goods over just routing the midi to my sound modules and shipping it". But it appears that no matter what road I take here, it's going to be a bit time consuming and it's really not part of the deal that I have with this guy. Thanks for your help...and to everyone else, it's much appreciated everyone!
 
I decided it would be best if the guy re-plays the part because there were a few things in the drum track that definitely need to be fixed. When I pointed them out to him, he agreed with me and was thankful that I brought the mistakes to his attention. So we should be good to go with a new file in the right bpm by tomorrow. :)
2010/02/26 13:30:52
brundlefly
I decided it would be best if the guy re-plays the part

 
What a great idea. Next time someone posts about how to do this, I think I'll answer:
 
1. Set the tempo to the desired value.
2. Enable the metronome for recording.
3. Arm the audio track.
4. Set record options to Overwrite.
5. Hit R and play your instrument to the click.
 

 
 
2016/05/05 17:38:47
grannis21a
Coming late to the party - I have a very similar problem - my friend recorded a live band. The drummer was playing an electric kit, which sounded poor in the recording, but, problem solved - he had also captured the midi in Protools. Only problem was that he had the BPM at an arbitrary 120, whereas in fact it is between 155 and 156 (slightly variable) .
 
Now I've imported it into Sonar X1 to sequence some keyboards on top. Using the audio track from the drums, I created a tempo map and lined up the keyboards pretty nicely. But now, if I bring the midi drum file in (because I don't like what my friend did with the drum sounds and want to re-do it), it's all over the place.
 
Could I tell sonar that one track is at 120 and the rest follow the 155-156 tempo map?
 
Even if we do this again, we are never going to persuade the drummer to play to a click at a live show, so we are going to get the same problem.
 
 
2016/05/05 18:27:32
azslow3
How you have managed to find 5 years old thread and not several recent?
 
The summary:
* Sonar can not have different tracks with different tempo map
* "usual" method: manual shrink/expand, use "fit to..." Sonar functions, etc.
* my method (for some reason no one has confirmed it works, but it works for me):
1) remember tempo during recording (important, it should be constant), so in your case is was 120
2) apply new tempo map on the project, including this track/clip
3) install this: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html , there is YouTube link at the beginning
4) better make one single MIDI clip from the recording (in case you have already split it), extend it above expected length (use your audio track as visual reference, that should not be precise, that is just to make the "room")
5) select the clip, using Sonar "Process..." menu select MFX AZLua, select "Apply tempo map" there, check that BPM is what you have remembered (120) and apply. The "magic" should happened.
 
I would appreciate any feedback in case you try my method ("could not understand" or "does not work" are still better then nothing).
 
PS. if you are interested how it works, in the posted link you can find the whole text for this "preset" (in fact a rather small program).
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