2015/11/30 15:05:00
azslow3
If you have done ACT map in the editor and even see it is working in software, you are done with ACT mapping. The rest has absolutely nothing to do with ACT.
 
We should clarify the meaning of words before we continue. ACT is ONLY about mapping plug-in parameters to virtual controls. There is only one another "thing" which has ACT name in it, "ACT MIDI" Sonar control surface plug-in. It is just a part of name. There are "ACT MIDI", "Generic Surface", "A-Pro", "VS-700", "AZ Controller", etc plug-ins which can work throw ACT (all of them! May be the only exception is "Mackie Control"). But only one of them has "ACT" word in its name.
 
So, you write "Sonar's ACT Controller's properties". I guess you mean "A-Pro" plug-in properties (you see "A-PRO" label in the window). "ACT MIDI" has no "software controls" to operate. I repeat, "A-Pro" plug-in can work with ACT, but it is not "ACT MIDI" plug-in. Also the window is the interface for this plug-in. Like VST window, it is NOT a part of "Sonar properties".
 
So, if all previous guess are correct, you can let say move a knob in "A-Pro" window and that changes some parameter but corresponding hardware control is not moving it. Is that right? Can you control something from hardware at all? I mean transport, volume?
 
"map 0...19" are build-in A-Pro (hardware) maps. The plug-in ("A-Pro") tries to switch A-Pro hardware to map 19 on startup. It also tries to map everything (NOT ACT, it maps hardware controls to MIDI messages). For that to work, it is very important to have correct "Output" port specified for "A-Pro" plug-in in Sonar Control Surfaces preferences dialog. Common symptoms that is not working right is significant delay (~10 sec) when you start Sonar/Load project (that is what I get if I add the plug-in because I have no A-Pro hardware). That means the plug-in is unable to communicate with hardware correctly. That does not immediately means there is no reaction from hardware, in case the "Input" configuration is correct, knobs, faders, buttons, keys are working. But that is clear indication something is wrong with outgoing communication (just wrong port selected, incompatible firmware in device, etc.).
2015/11/30 17:44:44
micv
Understand the definition.
Sonar's ACT Controller's properties == "ACT MIDI Controller-1".  Properties means I open that windows/interface page where it has mapping layout.  I did this just to see how the ACT mapping is outside of A-PRO-1, and it does map corresponding to the ACT Editor. This verified that ACT is done correctly and so ACT Editor done its job and save, close.
For clarification from this point:
A-PRO-1 == the Virtual Controller
APro == the hardware
 
I start Sonar, select A-PRO-1 as controller:
With APro's ACT hardware button on (by default when you start Sonar) APro does work for transport and all the default Sonar controls.  I added a soft synth and I can play sound with the keyboard. So midi is setup. 
This is where the issue begin:
Bring the soft synth into focus, the mapping in the A-PRO-1 is not what laid out in ACT Editor.  It's still default to whatever and although the APro works, it operates on some parameters that I don't want, worst, it assigned button to Resonate Frequency, for example.  This is what we all want right? to control the parameters we use.
So this is my question:  how do you get the A-PRO-1 to map to what I have mapped? and then how do you get that to the APro hardware?
The only way I know to map the ACT to A-PRO-1 to the hardware is to do the ACT Learn.  I did this (many times by now) and saved off the config.  The APro pads don't seems to work right as most of the time it can't learn, but the knobs an sliders do work.  But this way Sonar saves this in sonaract.xml, which is zero'ed if you use ACT Editor again.
Hope it makes sense.
2015/11/30 19:48:23
azslow3
Ok, my bad. I have not checked how it works for a while...
 
So the editor does not work starting from some (I do not know which) Sonar 2015 update.
Also Sonar now always save generic xml file at the end, at least when sonaract.xml is emptied.
EDIT: it was too late yesterday... I have to investigate more from where it comes.
 
What I have found myself (still) working is manual editing of generic XML file (with zeroed sonaract.xml). With small addition: all parameter names must be capitalized to have any effect.
 
I will contact MarKo for possible editor fix and update my documentation for manual editing.
2015/11/30 20:31:20
micv
I'm on X3e so no updates for awhile now. I'm the kind that stick to what works and very leery of 'updates'. 
So are you saying that A-PRO-1 should automatically 'load' the right mapping (if it's working)?
If Sonar saves something in the generic.xml file, I edit a map with ACT Editor without launching sonar, save it and then launch Sonar, at this point the only generic.xml is the one last updated by ACT Editor.  Then I launch Sonar, even in this case the A-PRO-1 still gets the 'bad' mapping from somewhere.  Which leads me to suspect that this is the A-Pro hardware's build in map for Sonar, and it loads up to the A-PRO-1 when the hardware's ACT button is enable.
2015/12/01 06:17:21
azslow3
It was really late yesterday...No changes between version. It is just that something else influence the mapping process. It is either plug-in and/or its position in generic.xml and/or particular parameters. I have to dig into that to understand.
 
But have you tried during generic.xml editing change parameter names to capital? In all my tests, that worked always. Note that after that change, the changes in the ACT Editor are also working. Also with which particular plug-in you are testing? It is really so that for many plug-ins I have tested the editor worked without tricks, but now I have found some for which capitalization is required.
 
There is no A-PRO internal ACT map. There can be "non ACT map", but I have not seen any hint it exists for A-Pro (exists for Mackie Control for example).
ACT works the following way "Knob 1" -> "ACT Knob 1". That mapping is done by A-Pro and it can be changed (right click on the knob to see "Exlcude..." options). "ACT Knob 1" -> "Plug-in parameter (for example Freq.)". That is done by Sonar, plug-in has no influence on that. That mapping comes from xml files, but there are processed "smart" way, combined with number of controls on particular controller to generate final mapping you see. And here something does not work as expected, at least in some situations. Capitalizing parameter names indicate that particular mapping was "ACT Learned", and so has priority over automatic detection (lower case names).
 
With act.xml not zero, there is yet another level of mapping for particular controller, so it distinguish "ACT Knob 1 (ACT MIDI)" and "ACT Knob 1 (A-Pro)". Which makes situation tracing more complicated.
 
It can also be that these XMLs get corrupted and so can no longer be parsed correctly. So the information after problematic place in the file is no longer used, reverting some configurations to autodetection default when you start Sonar. Sonar then save that "new" mapping, unfortunately still with problematic point. I have not understood that process yet, the corruption is normally not in XML structure but in parameter names (different cases for names, some strange characters and for sure something I do not know yet in addition).
2015/12/01 08:25:56
azslow3
I think I have found one possible source of that (and may be some other) problem. I mean the map you call "build in Sonar ACT map for A-PRO".
 
Move all other xml files from the configuration directory. I mean files *act.xml, *genericpluginparams.xml, where "*" is SONAR1, SONAR2.
 
Either capitalization of parameter names is still required or the editor will start to work with all plug-ins is still an option question, I am going to check this evening.
 
I have never used A-Pro or other standard old plug-ins. That is why while the problem was there for me as well, it was harder to hit. Real explanation is too long to put here, at least till we check my current guess is right.
 
EDIT: without other files, I see everything function fine with ACT Editor (for plug-ins I had problems before). Also I see desired mapping in APro plug-in, buttons inclusive.
 
NOTE: In default configuration, pads and buttons are excluded from ACT in all 4 banks. Can be changed by right clicking.
NOTE: Till "Map ACT identically..." is unchecked in options, only 8 ACT  knobs + sliders + buttons can be controlled, independent how many banks you define with ACT controls. When unchecked, you can control up to 4x more ACT controls (normally 3x to not scarify strip controls)
2015/12/01 17:37:03
micv
I have not tried capitalized the params name.  I did open the genericpluginparams.xml file and only with notepad so it's like trying to decode the U-Boat's Enigma machine!!! So I will defer this as last resort.  I will try moving everything else off that folder and only leave the genericpluginparams.xml there tonight.
 
So far I have mapped:
Pro Channel: EQ, Compressor, etc.  Thought I would start with something within Sonar first.  Using ACT Learn (touch a function and wiggle the hardware controller). This works quite well for the first time but at times it's 'stubborn' (won't map) if you want to re-assign something you already mapped. 
Oxford EQ.  Thought I would try an FX that I use a lot and with a high number of params.  This is where I started to have issue and started to search for solution.  Pads are defaulted to Sonar function and I can't assign to the plug-ins.  Knobs and faders mapped fine but at some point they reverted back to the initial random map.
Arturia Solina:  Before doing in ACT, I mapped this to the A-Pro via the A-Pro Editor without any issue.  Within ACT,  maps are all over the place and controller don;t work consistently.
The big one I want to do is NI B4, with all those draw bars. For this I will need to understand how to use the Bank to have more controller, but first thing first, let get the basic to work.
2015/12/01 18:10:30
azslow3
Have you noticed that I have edited my previous post?
 
micv
I have not tried capitalized the params name.  I did open the genericpluginparams.xml file and only with notepad so it's like trying to decode the U-Boat's Enigma machine!!! So I will defer this as last resort.  I will try moving everything else off that folder and only leave the genericpluginparams.xml there tonight.

If you do not do ACT Lean, you need sonaract.xml (zeroed!) as well. I have updated the test version of AZCtrl so it "beautify" genericpluginparams.xml the way notepad can work with it (was with Linux line ending style before).See my original link how to use that.
 
If you are going to use "ACT Learn", you need REAL (not zeroed) sonaract.xml. It will not work correctly otherwise. Note that you can not learn VST3 that way. And as you have noticed remapping is a nightmare.
 

So far I have mapped:
Pro Channel: EQ, Compressor, etc.  Thought I would start with something within Sonar first.  Using ACT Learn (touch a function and wiggle the hardware controller). This works quite well for the first time but at times it's 'stubborn' (won't map) if you want to re-assign something you already mapped. 
Oxford EQ.  Thought I would try an FX that I use a lot and with a high number of params.  This is where I started to have issue and started to search for solution.

So, go ACT Editor or manual way. You will save time and nerves.
 

  Pads are defaulted to Sonar function and I can't assign to the plug-ins.

See my first "Note".
 

  Knobs and faders mapped fine but at some point they reverted back to the initial random map.
Arturia Solina:  Before doing in ACT, I mapped this to the A-Pro via the A-Pro Editor without any issue.  Within ACT,  maps are all over the place and controller don;t work consistently.

Hard to achieve if you do not have correct sonaract.xml, no chance if that is VST3.
 

The big one I want to do is NI B4, with all those draw bars. For this I will need to understand how to use the Bank to have more controller, but first thing first, let get the basic to work.

See my second "Note".
2015/12/02 00:34:34
micv
The para names do show up or the pads, but not for the faders but has no function.
Moving the all files out and leave only genericpluginparams.xml and zero'ed sonaract.xml doesn't make any difference.  Those files has mapping for ProChannel and BreVerb and other Sonar plug-ins so it shouldn't interfere.
Manual capitalize doesn't do anything either.
More sure what and when but it's now more 'broken'.  Pads are sending values on/off/0%/100% randomly.  Fader for volume suppose to do db are now also do %.  Moving fader or button on the virtual A-PRO-1 produce no functionality.
Forget the hardware for now, the virtual A-PRO-1 can't control anything on the synth any more.  Revert back to the previous state (where I left off yesterday) everything is working but of course the hardware control all the wrong function, back to square 0.
 
Time to take a deep breath and revisit the basic:
1) The files are under $user\App Data\Roaming\Cakewalk\ right? seems like this is a temp directory, but ACT Editor did its thing here so it should be right.
2) genericpluginparams.xml maps control type -- para name --para index
3) sonaract.xml maps para name -- para index --Surface Control ID
Then what maps the Surface Control ID to the hardware?   How can ACT maps to hardware without the sonaract.xml file?
 
btw on another note, The Apro has 4 bank buttons, how do you configure the bank button to have access to 3 more set of controllers?
2015/12/02 04:56:12
azslow3
All these XMLs are not influencing the Volume control from faders (I mean strip volume control).
About 4 banks I have already answered (you should uncheck one option).
sonaract.xml is YET ANOTHER mapping file. For some reason, I get it corrupted faster then other one. In fact since it was corrupted before I have started to understand the whole structure, I was thinking for long time it is not used at all.
 
Well constructed genericpluginparams.xml should work. Unfortunately, there is no indication from Sonar when it is not well constructed. I suggest you take a deep breath and do the sequence one more time:
1. Configure A-Pro plug-in for ACT banks / ACT pads as you want (I mean options and "Exclude from"). Exit Sonar.
2. Move away other XMLs, except zeroed sonaract.xml and good genericpluginparams.xml (may be even remove it to regenerate).
3. Open sonar, focus all plug-ins you want ACT control (just click on plugin in FX bin, nothing else). Exit Sonar.
4. Start ACT Editor, start Sonar, add AZCtrl and open its property window. Set ACT Editor follow AZ Ctrl.
5. Clicking on plug-ins select then in ACT Editor. Map parameters. Press "Save". Also confirm saving if ACT Editor asks in addition.  Exit Sonar. Press "Save" in ACT Editor one more time. Close it.
6. Restart Sonar to use the mapping.
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