A1MixMan

John

And 96kHz extends the dynamic range. People will argue whether "humans" can hear it, but it goes beyond that. Nature doesn't stop at 44.1 kHz, so why should I?

No, there is no extension of dynamic range. There is a bandwidth increase. Two very different things.

Whoops, you're right. I meant to say 24bit extends the dynamic range. That is correct, right?

Correct. Sort of. 24 bits gives one more steps in the dynamic range. The loudest sound and the lowest sound could be the same with 16 bits. You just have more levels in between with 24 bits. Here the graphic analogy works somewhat.  One could say more shades of grey in a bitmap with 24 bits and less with 16 bits. Sample rate has no analogy in the graphics domain though.

One important fact is that 0 db is 0 db whether its a 16 bit file or a 24 bit file.

UnderTow

Loptec


Anledningen till att jag kanske inte uttryckte mig helt korrekt i mitt första meddelande är kanske att engelska inte är mitt förstaspråk. Om jag hade skrivit det på svenska hade jag nog kunnat uttrycka mig på ett mer korrekt sätt. Jag tycker ändå att min metafor gav en ganska tydlig bild av vad jag menade. Nu förväntar jag mig ett välskrivet och genomtänkt svar av dig, Undertow, på svenska.

Det är inte min avsikt att konfrontera, men hittar du alla dessa detaljer viktiga. Din analogi är felaktig eftersom Sverige i engelska som han. Analogin stämmer inte sig själv. Inte bara de ord du använder.

UnderTow

Sorry.. Google translate is crap when it comes to grammer, my friend.. :)

UnderTow

rabeach

UnderTow

rabeach

The Shanon-Nyquist theorem says you only need twice the audible bandwidth to perfectly reproduce any audible signal.

That is absolutely not what it says.

I love these statements with absolutely no backing.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem :

"the theorem shows that a bandlimited analog signal that has been sampled can be perfectly reconstructed from an infinite sequence of samples if the sampling rate exceeds 2B samples per second, where B is the highest frequency in the original signal."

UnderTow

And now you see your mistake. You should really try to post factual information.

It IS factual. I wrote "The Shanon-Nyquist theorem says you only need twice the audible bandwidth to perfectly reproduce any audible signal." I could have left out the word audible but that would not have made it any more factual. If something is true for ALL signals, then it must be true for a subset, the audible subset, of those signals.

Do you really not understand that?


UnderTow

"if the sampling rate exceeds 2B samples" are you really not able to comprehend that.

SvenArne

- Comparisons to images/video are confusing at best. They do not help anyone better understand how digital audio works.

Only to people who have no inclination of how images/video work. To those of us that do, Loptec's metaphor was spot-on, and would help many newbies coming in here with more knowledge of image than audio.

How do I know? Because when I first started producing many years ago, someone used that very same analogy and it helped me quickly understand why it's best to work in higher resolutions than what the final product requires. The only reason to work at lower bit depths, bandwidth or whatever specialized term you wish to use is processing power. If you've got the juice, you might as well use it.

DISCLAIMER : The word "resolution" here is used figuratively, and should not be taken literally.

jyeager11

UnderTow

Or because we understand how sampling works. There is no such thing as resolution in audio.

Umm, you understand what a metaphor is, right? Like, when someone says "easy as pie", there isn't always pie involved? That's what we're doing here when we're talking about resolution.

It is a bad metaphor.

it is better to record and mix in 24b than it is in 16b, even if the final output will be 16b.

Yes it is better to record in 24 bits. I have agreed with that a long time ago if you would have been paying attention...

UnderTow

John

Correct. Sort of. 24 bits gives one more steps in the dynamic range. The loudest sound and the lowest sound could be the same with 16 bits. You just have more levels in between with 24 bits.

Hence Loptec's use of the word RESOLUTION. And it is a spot-on analogy.

Here the graphic analogy works somewhat. 

Not "somewhat", John. It just works. It is the very definition of resolution.

Loptec

Freddie H

Loptec

best possibl

Freddie H


Okay boys and girls are you all ready for the truth?



Okay I use 24 bit, 32bit, 64bit 48kHz or 96kHz and all kinds of dithering and hoghend AD DA converters too etc......but can we hear the difference...?
You can't hear any dithering go on at all , infact you can't even hear the difference between 12-14 bit or 16 bit whatever...
Still we should always use the best possible quality we have..but you should be aware of the facts why and what's real or not..



Watch this Video and you will learn alot of all kinds AUDIO myths floating around out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

Sorry I can’t agree with this.
You hear a huge difference just by changing from 16bit 44..1kHz to 24bit 48kHz!
And it’s not just what you hear in the basic recording it’s what you can do with the sound afterwards..
It’s like editing an image..

Let’s say you have a HUGE photo of a flower with a fly sitting on it.

* If you have great resolution you can zoom in and draw a hat on the fly.

* With low resolution all you can do is putting a blob in the fly’s head and say.. “well.. it kind of looks like a hat”

In other words you get SO MUCH more control over the sound when working with higher resolution. And even if you compress the audio to mp3 or whatever after, the final product sounds SO much better if it wasn’t all blurry from the start

My friend... I'm with you.. I'm not saing that...
Its Sunday take your time watching the VIDEO I posted.. I think you will like it. It it will take one hour to watch the Video.

Haha.. Yeah, I'll do that ..but later :)
First I think I'll get out in the sun for a bit.. :) ..If I'm not mistaking you're from sweden too, yes? Then you know that if you
want to get any sun before winter you'd better be fast! :)

Also, I didn't see the line "We should always urge and use the best possible quality we have..but you should be aware of the facts why and what's real or not.." in your message before. I couldn't agree more with this! :)

True my friend! .....By the way...  just a friendly advice...no point trying to explain your point on this FORUM... let the people get to their own conclutions...even though later----> their own conclutions will be perhaps exactly the same you are trying to tell them...
 
Think about it!

Loptec

UnderTow

Loptec


Anledningen till att jag kanske inte uttryckte mig helt korrekt i mitt första meddelande är kanske att engelska inte är mitt förstaspråk. Om jag hade skrivit det på svenska hade jag nog kunnat uttrycka mig på ett mer korrekt sätt. Jag tycker ändå att min metafor gav en ganska tydlig bild av vad jag menade. Nu förväntar jag mig ett välskrivet och genomtänkt svar av dig, Undertow, på svenska.

Det är inte min avsikt att konfrontera, men hittar du alla dessa detaljer viktiga. Din analogi är felaktig eftersom Sverige i engelska som han. Analogin stämmer inte sig själv. Inte bara de ord du använder.

UnderTow

Sorry.. Google translate is crap when it comes to grammer, my friend.. :)

Not so crap as to lose the meaning. :-) I am sure you understood what I wrote. I did chose to feed google with Dutch because I am guessing the Dutch grammar is closer to Swedish than English but clearly not close enough!

UnderTow

UnderTow

jyeager11

Umm, you understand what a metaphor is, right? Like, when someone says "easy as pie", there isn't always pie involved? That's what we're doing here when we're talking about resolution.

It is a bad metaphor.

YOU'RE a bad metaphor.

it is better to record and mix in 24b than it is in 16b, even if the final output will be 16b.

Yes it is better to record in 24 bits.

For reasons very well illustrated by Loptec's metaphor.

The end.