You either can't comprehend what you read or you are intentionally overlooking things I said to prove your own deluded point, which is very embarrassing on your part if that's the case.

I said I would be fully 64 bit now if Sonar PE shipped with all 64bit plugins. The real problems is Bitbridge, not 64 bit.

But again, you are choosing to go around in circles to be passive aggressive.

Bud please attempt to be less objectionable in your posts. 

I am not going to rewrite all that I have posted on this subject. Its way too much.

Just do a search on 64 bits in the old Sonar forum and all will be revealed to you.

I do not wish to repeat what is already there for you to discover.

Maybe you should read the the thread you are taking part in so you don't keep looking like an antagonist? Or is that your intention?

Paul Russell

Bub

Unfortunately I have, and the reality is there is no noticeable improvement when going from Sonar x86 to x64 and the Teleport Server crashes are just one more annoyance on top of the many confirmed bugs in X1 so I just don't even waste my time with it anymore.

There is absolutely no need for Sonar x64 on any DAW ... period. If you have fallen for the marketing hype and feel the urge to play with it by all means go right ahead. You're just another one in a long line of beta testers who got duped in to thinking x64 is better.

That may have been the reality for you in the short time that you used it until you gave up. But I converted tox64 in Feb 2008 and have already produced one album at 24/96. We used x64 samplers like Play extensively and song projects took up as much as 14GB of RAM. No freezing. Even mixing I can still see RAM usage of over 8GB these days, and the wide selection of x64 native samplers and plugins show that your opinion is simply outdated and inaccurate. 

John T

I wasn't aware we needed an "excuse".

As to the main point  you were making it was actually this:

There is absolutely no need for Sonar x64 on any DAW ... period. If you have fallen for the marketing hype and feel the urge to play with it by all means go right ahead. You're just another one in a long line of beta testers who got duped in to thinking x64 is better.

In other words, there are absolutely no uses for it, and anyone who thinks there are is a sucker.

Now quite a lot of people who actually know what they're talking about have put you right on this, you seem to have moved quite a long way from your original position.

John

Bub you have your reasons for sticking in 32 bits. That is valid for you. It is not valid for most everyone else that has moved to 64 bits. The reason so many of us have piped in on this is that you are trying to discourage others from taking the leap to 64 bits. Why do that? You have testimony from lots of us that 64 bits works and works well for us. I and many others have found it better overall to 32 bit computing. Why is that so wrong from your point of view? Even if you have not been happy with 64 bit computing why continue to find it important to stop others from moving on and adopting it?

Its as if you are stuck in the last century thus you want everyone to be also.

You have heard from very good people on this forum stating in effect that they are happy with 64 bits. People have given you good reasons for their happiness. Why wont you accept what they say and simply let it be. You are still able to run 32 bits all you want.

Lets stop this negative nonsense. 

Well, I get quite fed up with all the mis-information, negativity, and hot air that flows on this forum (and many others).

There are plenty of people using 64 bit Sonar (and other apps) successfully, who do know what they're talking about,
just look at the comments above.

I feel sorry for the poor people who come here looking for valid information because they want to get better performance
by taking a sensible upgrade step to bring them up to date, just to be bombarded by gob loads of mis-information and
attitude that may just put them off or confuse them.


It's plain fact that the difference between 64 bit and 32 bit is like the difference between night and day.

It has nothing to do with marketing hype, it's fact and I'm not here for a pointless arguement about it.
I'm not here to pick a fight as some have mentioned, but that attitude seems front of mind elsewhere.

Me - I'm just about to add another 12 GB ram to my 64bit system.

If I hadn't gone 64 bit, I would simply NOT be able to accomplish the things that are now literally a breeze.
It really is a night and day difference - IF the rest of your system is up to spec. As with anything, you're weakest link will
be what determines the capability of your system.

With a fast processor, loads of RAM, and 64 bit, the performace and capability of 64bit vs 32 is not even comparable.
It like comparing a pedal bicycle to 1200cc monster bike.

I hope people who consider moving to 64 bit aren't put off by reading too much of the mis-information and other rubbish around here.

I'm even feeling dissappointed that I wasted my time coming here today, so I'm off to attempt something worth while.


Happy Music Making to you all :-)
To quote Freddie "Yes 64 bit Really DOES matter".

Cheers - Cliff

Cliff great post. It is important to set the record straight. That has been my concern.

cliffr

Well, I get quite fed up with all the mis-information, negativity, and hot air that flows on this forum (and many others).

There are plenty of people using 64 bit Sonar (and other apps) successfully, who do know what they're talking about, just look at the comments above.

I feel sorry for the poor people who come here looking for valid information because they want to get better performance by taking a sensible upgrade step to bring them up to date, just to be bombarded by gob loads of mis-information and attitude that may just put them off or confuse them.

I feel sorry for the people who come here and are told to use 64bit and just run their 32bit plugins via bitbridge, then come back a week later and wonder how to fix all those nasty Teleport Server crashes they are getting.

It's plain fact that the difference between 64 bit and 32 bit is like the difference between night and day.

Well, Jim Roseberry is one of, if not the, most respected, level headed, knowledgeable, helpful forum members here. I think I'll listen to what he has to say since he's an actual professional who builds DAW's for a living ...

"If you're running a fully 64Bit system (hardware, host DAW, plugins)... you may see a slight performance increase.  That said, don't expect it to be a night vs. day differrence. IOW, Don't upgrade expecting a major performance increase."

If you are talking about the ability to load more samples in memory without freezing, by all means go the way of x64. If you are just using X1 and playing games like the person who started this thread ... there's no real reason to use Sonar x64, but rather very good reason to use Sonar x86 since some of the synths are 32bit only as well as some of the VST FX, and it's best to avoid Bitbridge if at all possible. Not to mention the DX plug-in's he'll be missing out on that are 32 bit that won't even load in x64 via Bitbridge.

Bub

Ok time to weigh in, bub is right in once sense, at the moment and even though a lot of you are running 64 bit successfully it does have its issues!!!!  You can use freeze and to a point it does make this whole argument of 64 bit superfluous.  Ok where bub is going wrong is it is an absolute hassle to freeze and unfreeze when you are editing but on saying that I have just finished a new song here it is http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks/nowandthen ( it's a cover of the unfinished third Beatles anthology single) this song used 4 Mellotrons, 3 Dimension Pro's, Session Drummer 3, True Piano, and the drum machine Velocity.  Then I also used 5 instances of guitar rig, I had the Audio Snap pallate running on about 5 or tracks at once and finally the V-Vocal and all of this without the need to freeze and did I mention all I had was 4 gig of ram.  I finally free-zed all the tracks because for some reason the external effect makes midi notes drop out.

What everybody is missing here is this, the benefits of a 32 bit system all the way is "probably" as good as a hodge podge system that is 64 bit.  Why?  This is how it works, if you have a 64 bit system and you have recorded at 24 bit already you are taxing the system because the system has to calculate the difference. 

Ok to explain it better, if I had a fully 64 bit system and I recorded at 64 (which you can) then all my plugs are at 64 bit and my synths and samplers, the system has to do less calculations because it doesn't have to upsample or re-quantize or even dither, the whole system runs better because everything is the same and the benefits of 32 bit all the way are the same.  The problem is not everything is 64 bit so no matter how much extra ram you have the calculations the CPU has to do double because you have keep doing all these extra calculations.  I hope you all get what I mean.

Look you all have it right, I would not touch 64 bit and I have stated this over and over but if I was going to build a digital orchestra then I would need the extra ram.

Bub relax, you ain't going to win on this one, I am with you but I can see the benefits of 64 bit, it's just I don't need it a vast majority of the users on this forum don't need it.  The only thing you I and I can do is not let the waters get too muddy!!!

Peace

What everybody is missing here is this, the benefits of a 32 bit system all the way is "probably" as good as a hodge podge system that is 64 bit. Why? This is how it works, if you have a 64 bit system and you have recorded at 24 bit already you are taxing the system because the system has to calculate the difference. Ok to explain it better, if I had a fully 64 bit system and I recorded at 64 (which you can) then all my plugs are at 64 bit and my synths and samplers, the system has to do less calculations because it doesn't have to upsample or re-quantize or even dither, the whole system runs better because everything is the same and the benefits of 32 bit all the way are the same. The problem is not everything is 64 bit so no matter how much extra ram you have the calculations the CPU has to do double because you have keep doing all these extra calculations. I hope you all get what I mean. Look you all have it right, I would not touch 64 bit and I have stated this over and over but if I was going to build a digital orchestra then I would need the extra ram. Bub relax, you ain't going to win on this one, I am with you but I can see the benefits of 64 bit, it's just I don't need it a vast majority of the users on this forum don't need it. The only thing you I and I can do is not let the waters get too muddy!!!

You have some facts wrong. You can record at 64 bits in a 32 bit system as long as you are not recording from any hardware. That is from an audio interface. You could do the same in a 64 bit system too.  Recording at any bit depth has noting to do with the OS bit depth or the program doing the recording. No hardware supports 64 bits or even 32 bits for digital to analog conversion. The highest bit depth for hardware is 24 bits.

There is a big difference between 64 bit programs that run natively on a 64 bit OS and internal 64 bit processes  and files. A 64 bit plugin may process at 32 bits. Understanding the difference is very important in understanding why one would want 64 bit computing. Even in Sonar X1 you can have it process at 32 bits or 64 bits. This has nothing to do with which audio file bit depth one ends up with. It wont matter which version one chooses - 32 bit X1 or 64 bit X1 either.

Also a 32 bit plugin in a 32 bit host running on a 32 bit OS can process at 64 bits. Ozone did this for years as one example.

As for bitbridged plugins giving one problems the only problem I had was the inability of a bitbridged plugins from going behind a window. This was solved with X1 plus. Otherwise I have had no problems.

Man, this has got circular.

Pardon me, but it really does appears that you like to jump on any thread where people talk about their good experience or success, and rain all over it.

Bub

cliffr

Well, I get quite fed up with all the mis-information, negativity, and hot air that flows on this forum (and many others).

There are plenty of people using 64 bit Sonar (and other apps) successfully, who do know what they're talking about, just look at the comments above.

I feel sorry for the poor people who come here looking for valid information because they want to get better performance by taking a sensible upgrade step to bring them up to date, just to be bombarded by gob loads of mis-information and attitude that may just put them off or confuse them.

I feel sorry for the people who come here and are told to use 64bit and just run their 32bit plugins via bitbridge, then come back a week later and wonder how to fix all those nasty Teleport Server crashes they are getting.

Here we go, rain on anyone with a good or positive comment - I don't see where anybody has TOLD people thay have to go 64bit and dump/erase their 32bit install.
That would be just plain stupid.

cliffr

It's plain fact that the difference between 64 bit and 32 bit is like the difference between night and day.

And here you go like a bad reporter, choosing your snippet and leaving out the surrounding context.
Did you even read the full post ?.

My guess is that you did, and left this out of context on purpose.

And here is the important bits you chose to miss, which put this in context: (note: IF the rest of your system is up to spec)
------
What I said was ...
Me - I'm just about to add another 12 GB ram to my 64bit system.

If I hadn't gone 64 bit, I would simply NOT be able to accomplish the things that are now literally a breeze.
It really is a night and day difference - IF the rest of your system is up to spec. As with anything, you're weakest link will
be what determines the capability of your system.

With a fast processor, loads of RAM, and 64 bit, the performace and capability of 64bit vs 32 is not even comparable.
It like comparing a pedal bicycle to 1200cc monster bike.
-----

Bub - you should stop quoting people out of context, but I guess you do that to suit your purpose and agenda.

It appears that you like to jump on any thread where people talk about their good experience or success, and rain all over it.

Bub
Well, Jim Roseberry is one of, if not the, most respected, level headed, knowledgeable, helpful forum members here. I think I'll listen to what he has to say since he's an actual professional who builds DAW's for a living ...

Good, and so you should. I know others listen to Jim too. I'd also note that Jim builds plenty of 64bit systems, with lots of RAM and powerful processors.
So I guess by your account of things he's also been duped by the marketing hype, and sells people stuff they don't need ?.

Bub
"If you're running a fully 64Bit system (hardware, host DAW, plugins)... you may see a slight performance increase.  That said, don't expect it to be a night vs. day differrence. IOW, Don't upgrade expecting a major performance increase."

If you are talking about the ability to load more samples in memory without freezing, by all means go the way of x64.

Well exactly !.

That's how the thread was shaping, but you rained in and turned it into something else,
with you comments like in the following posts;

Post #28:

Bub
Honestly, I see no benefit to 64bit. It's just a marketing gimmick with marginal real world improvement.

That one's been well and truly shot down.

Post #35:

Bub
There is absolutely no need for Sonar x64 on any DAW ... period. If you have fallen for the marketing hype and feel the urge to play with it by all means go right ahead. You're just another one in a long line of beta testers who got duped in to thinking x64 is better.

And that was even worse - again, shot down.

Post #38: (now it's getting tacky)

Bub
Well, if you actual gave specifics such as what samples, who put them out, etc etc ... I would be inclined to believe you. Unfortunately, I have to call b******t on this as your comment currently stands.

I Note - you didn't call Jonbouy out on post #39 and call him a liar. Why ever not I wonder ?.


In post #41, You continue to call out John T as talking BS, yet you totally ignore Jonbuoy's post #39 just above,
where Jonbuoy states;
Here it matters 100%, as it means the difference between showtime and a project not loading.

So is Jonbuoy a liar too ?.
I don't think so.

I also have 6gb RAM, and I've pushed up against the limits and have to add more RAM now.

Bub, if you can't accept that these limits can be easily reached with a large project, and that freezing synths on an under spec'd system is not the right answer, then you have some problem that is entirely your own.

You can call me a liar, or whatever you want if it makes you feel better, but it is plain fact that I have projects that have grown way to big to load into 32 bit Sonar.

I don't have to justify to you or anyone else what I've got in those projects, anyone using big sample sets knows what I'm talking about.


And to continue ...

Post #44:
You continue to call out John T, with the rather non-sensical line.

Bub
So in essence ... you have created your own problem and have not shown me a valid instance where you are not able to use 32 bit.

I think after reading that, I might suggest perhaps you've created your own problems, and haven't shown any valid proof that the problems you
have with Sonar aren't because there's something wrong with your PC, or your ability to configure or troubleshoot it.

But that would put the show on the other foot, which I'm sure you really don't like.
It's alright when you do it though ?

Frankly - it's not alright for anyone to do it.

I'm NOT saying that's the case - I'ts not my position to be so presumptive and rude, but it could be the case ?.


Here's a little bit of fact for you.
FACT: Some synths have to be frozen real-time, and they do that one channel at a time.
I have for example a lage symphonic 9 minute project, and freezing ONE synth instance with 14 instruments in it would take just over 2 hours.

I'd have to be an idiot to want to do that, just to try and avoid using the goodness of the 64bit PC and DAW application I bought.

But that seems to be what you are telling people they can do, which in turn is your excuse for stupid blanket statements like  in post #35.


Post #49:

Bub
You can unfreeze a track to work on it so again I call BS.

" ... it's nobody's preference." - Again, BS.

Again - you're continuing to call out John T with a riduculious argument.

John is right, I have the same here so I concur with him. You seem to be the only one here that want's to make this ridiculous arguement.
You don't call out Yorolpal for his post #47.
I wonder why not ?.

I can't understand why you seem to be the only one here that want's to make this ridiculous arguement.


And then the thread just goes further and further south, resorting to insults and gutter tactics.
=======


In summary, 64bit is perfectly fine, it does NOT preclude you from using your 32bit install if you so need, to use a particular plugin (or whatever).

I don't know what your problem is, but you seem to have some inane dislike for 64bit Sonar that seems to compel you to spout the strangest, unfounded nonsense.
Oh, and did I say that you change the story to suit as the thread moves along ?.


Here's the simple answer about 64bit:
-------
Sonar comes with BOTH 32 and 64bit versions.
If you want to know if 64bit will work better for you - install it and try it out.

If it doesn't work out for your particular set up, go back to 32bit, or work through whatever issues present.

But don't listen to nonsense statements like can be seen in this thread and elsewhere.

Bub
 If you are just using X1 and playing games like the person who started this thread ... there's no real reason to use Sonar x64, but rather very good reason to use Sonar x86 since some of the synths are 32bit only as well as some of the VST FX, and it's best to avoid Bitbridge if at all possible. Not to mention the DX plug-in's he'll be missing out on that are 32 bit that won't even load in x64 via Bitbridge.

And how do you know that ?.
It's your take from where you're sitting, and that's all it is.
The exact opposite may be what the OP finds, if they're not put off simply loading and trying 64bit.

And your argument doesn't hold water anyway, because you can install/run both 32 and 64bit versions.


Me - I put off installing the 64 bit for a while because of all the negative rubbish I saw on this forum, and I wish I'd just ignored it all and jumped right at it.

Enough said - I'm out of here.

Cheers - Cliff