stevec
That is an often forgot editing ability that could really come in handy just as you've outlined.   
 

 
Agreed.  I actually had long forgotten this tool existed.  I don't recall any tutorial/video about Sonar that demonstrates this tool, and it really wasn't that important with layers, which could explain why it could be easily forgotten.  I only thought about it after I saw a video on editing in Cubase where they used a similar tool effectively.  I actually came close to putting in a feature request for such a tool, until a small a small light bulb went off and I thought "perhaps I can already do this in Sonar?"  

brundlefly

Keni
I believe that with an extra modifier added to the alt-click (such as Ctrl-alt-click) to allow splitting of individual clips instead of all lanes... I would like to see that come...

Hey Keni, I didn't catch all the responses in the other thread about this, but we need to get to the bottom of why your Alt-click with the Smart-tool isn't splitting takes individually. I think you're the exception on this.

Thanks brundlefly...

It's been driving me batty here... I have a mix session beginning today and I'm sure to get a workout at comping and the likes, so I will see more...

Maybe something I'm doing wrong or some mode I've been in while unaware... I'll post more ASAP...

Keni

neirbod

brundlefly

Keni
I believe that with an extra modifier added to the alt-click (such as Ctrl-alt-click) to allow splitting of individual clips instead of all lanes... I would like to see that come...

Hey Keni, I didn't catch all the responses in the other thread about this, but we need to get to the bottom of why your Alt-click with the Smart-tool isn't splitting takes individually. I think you're the exception on this.

ALT+click works for me as well, splitting just the actual take I click on.  
 
Are we all talking about the same thing here?  If I have grouped clips (e.g., Overhead and kick) with takes 1 and 2, ALT+click on take 1 will split *both* the OH and kick on take 1, but neither mic on take 2.  This makes the most sense for multi-miced instruments, at least the vast majority of the time.  Not sure if Keni means he wants the ability to split "OH take 1" without splitting "kick take 1."  To my knowledge this is possible only if you remove the clips in question from the groups.

Hi neirbod...

I'm a bit confused by your example, but it may be exactly what you're describing...

On a single track with multiple lanes..

If I select an individual lane/clip and execute an alt-click, it splits all of the lanes on the track instead of the single one I selected.

Maybe I was too confused and doing something wrong? I'm starting an album mix for a client today so I'm sure I'll be doing some comping and such a bit... I'll report more ASAP...

BTW... I do not currently use groups at all...

Thanks...
Keni

The only way I get more than one clip split by Alt+click is by selecting clips in other lanes in the same time range (or the whole track) before Alt+clicking on one. If I select only one clip (or nothing), only the clip I click gets split.
 
EDIT: And, yes, when tracks are grouped Alt-click will split corresponding clips in the group as expected, but I don't that's a factor here.

brundlefly

Anderton
 
Here are some things you CAN'T do with Take Lanes (at least I haven't figured out how):
 

• Do automatic crossfades within a Lane, because clips within the same lane can't overlap. Workaround: Create a new Take Lane, move the clip you want to crossfade into it, and do a manual fade in/fade out for the overlapping clips.

This one's a little weird, because you can do it if lanes are not showing when you create the overlap, and the Ref. Guide says the same will happen with lanes showing. I've reported this to the Bakers. Should be possible in Blend editing mode.
 
From the X3 Ref. Guide on page 384 under "Using Take Lanes":
 
"Note 2: If the Track view Options > Auto Crossfade option is enabled, SONAR adds acrossfade between any newly overlapped clips that are on the same Take lane."

You're right! Not showing the Take Lanes while doing the overlap was the solution. Thanks! I've gone back and edited the original post to reflect this.

brundlefly
The only way I get more than one clip split by Alt+click is by selecting clips in other lanes in the same time range (or the whole track)...

If the Comp clip in the parent track is selected, that selects all Take Lanes and will also cause a split to affect all Take Lanes. I'm sure you know that, but maybe Keni has the Comp clip selected?

stevec

neirbod

...The solution - use the "move data within a clip" feature of slip edit instead of moving the clip itself.  This leave the original take visible.  Once lined up, you can collapse the lanes and use crossfading on the track to make the edit seamless.
 
...1) I found that "move data within a clip" is essential for editing within take lanes. I rarely used this with layers, instead moving entire clips and then using layers' good tools for trimming edges of overlapping layers.  With lanes, using this approach I would get lots of tiny clip fragments and small gaps between.  Moving data within clips is much better for my workflow.
 

That is an often forgot editing ability that could really come in handy just as you've outlined.   And it's definitely something that I can see Craig including in his article since it completely eliminates editing clip boundaries. 
  

That is indeed a great tip. For those who don't remember the keyboard shortcut, it's Alt+Shift and click/drag in the clip's top half.

brundlefly

Anderton
 
Here are some things you CAN'T do with Take Lanes (at least I haven't figured out how):
 

• Do automatic crossfades within a Lane, because clips within the same lane can't overlap. Workaround: Create a new Take Lane, move the clip you want to crossfade into it, and do a manual fade in/fade out for the overlapping clips.

This one's a little weird, because you can do it if lanes are not showing when you create the overlap, and the Ref. Guide says the same will happen with lanes showing. I've reported this to the Bakers. Should be possible in Blend editing mode.
 
From the X3 Ref. Guide on page 384 under "Using Take Lanes":
 
"Note 2: If the Track view Options > Auto Crossfade option is enabled, SONAR adds acrossfade between any newly overlapped clips that are on the same Take lane."

 
Agree this is odd behavior, and one of the several (many?) quirks and bugs that make using takes more confusing and difficult than it should be.  Glad you reported it.
 
Cleaning up this kind of buggy behavior would go a long way toward making takes more useful.  Craig, I hope that your article will not just discuss how best to use takes in their current form, but also a list of such oddities/bugs and any feature requests to recommend that Sonar address so that this feature can achieve its rather high potential.  

I stumbled into layer-like editing once in the last week, but wasn't paying enough attention to know how I did it (or even if it was really all that hard to get into that 'mode'). I haven't done it since, but only because the need hasn't come up again yet.
 
I can, however, say that it worked. I was able to rearrange clips using two take lanes as if they were layers and then bounced the end product to a new track... which I did rather quickly while crossing my fingers and hoping nothing went south before the bounce was finished.

neirbod
Craig, I hope that your article will not just discuss how best to use takes in their current form, but also a list of such oddities/bugs and any feature requests to recommend that Sonar address so that this feature can achieve its rather high potential. 

Well, I'm not sure an article is the right venue for that. First, I have to fit everything in 1500 words max + 3 screen shots; readers will likely prefer that I cover what they can do than what they can't. Second, the time between writing and publication can be several months. As a result some limitations may or may not have been addressed by the time the article hits.
 
Third, I'm sure the Bakers will prioritize improvements based on available resources, not what's written in my Sound on Sound column. That said, I do report issues, and I have seen some of them so up in fixes so I know they're listening.
 
I know for a fact the people at Cakewalk are highly committed to making Sonar the best software possible. Reality does have a tendency to throw roadblocks in their path, but they evaluate every tradeoff very carefully to try and provide the maximum benefit for the maximum number of users.
 
For example. I've been thinking about the crossfade thing. I can understand where crossfading in the parent track clip, where you can only see clips in their non-overlapped state, would make crossfading easier. What if you had crossfades in the same place but in different Take Lanes? Then the parent track clip would have to decide which Take Lane crossfade had priority, and display that. Or maybe do a temp rendering of only the complicated crossfades...then display the results of that. Or it could be that being able to do crossfades with Take Lanes visible creates a whole can of worms compared to doing crossfades on the parent track.
 
Some limitations exist because a solution is exponentially more difficult that it might appear to someone like me, who doesn't code. But now that I know crossfades can happen if the Take Lanes aren't visible, that's certainly better than thinking they can't be done at all. An article can help make others aware of this kind of thing.
 
The next thing I want to try in Take Lanes is using them as independently recordable tracks to see if that allows for any interesting potential workflows.