This is close to "mangulator" status!!! 

Before I read your post, but I read the name of the tip (How Does it Sound in a Car?), I thought you were going to suggest using a convolution sample of the car to simulate the car environment in some sort of convolution VST.
 
The car mix test is really important for a finished product.

Anderton
 
Try it sometime and tweak your mix. Then turn off the noise, take a short break so your ears get acclimated back to normal hearing, and check the mix again. You just might find it’s a whole lot better.  

Ill try it but i cant help but ask, in trying to understand the art of mixing,  in trying to make a "mix" sound as good or balanced as possible under a noise induced listening scenario, wouldn't you somehow be compromising or more so over compensating in the mix, particularly with music having a large dynamic range, and which is likely to be mastered in a high quality listening environment? 
Perhaps, Im not understanding the intention here, or confusing mixing and mastering? Or could this also be something you may do for the "master", so the final product sounds good in several listening scenario, like a car?
(or perhaps Ive been doing this already without realizing, mixing with my air purifier running, LOL).
 
Cheers
 
    

JohnEgan
 
Ill try it but i cant help but ask, in trying to understand the art of mixing,  in trying to make a "mix" sound as good or balanced as possible under a noise induced listening scenario, wouldn't you somehow be compromising or more so over compensating in the mix, particularly with music having a large dynamic range, and which is likely to be mastered in a high quality listening environment?

The key is what I said about the ear having difficulty discriminating level changes compared to pitch changes. The noise artificially "biases" your ear (in the sense of a voltage bias or tape bias, not being prejudiced against extra-terrestrials) to hear within a limited dynamic range. This reveals which instruments in a mix fall, or don't fall, within that window. Mixing with noise is definitely not an arbiter, it's a diagnostic tool.
 
You'll find this out for yourself if you try it. For example, I tried this with a song and the rhythm guitar was buried because I tend to mix rhythm guitars relatively low anyway. So I increased the level to where I could just hear the string strums. When I took the noise away, the rhythm guitar level didn't seem all that different, but it filled out the song better...so I left it at the somewhat higher level. And it sounds better in a car 
 
Of course with SONAR, you have a big advantage because of Mix Recall. You make the tweaks with the noise, save it as a scene, then A-B it with other scenes. If it's better, great. If not...no harm. 
 
Also I'm glad you brought up mixing vs. mastering. I use this only to test mixes prior to mastering. Once the mix is right, mastering does the fine-tuning and at that point, using noise is too much of a sledgehammer if your interest is fine-tuning a song.

Anderton
And it sounds better in a car 
 

 
Thanks,
So for the car thing, do you do a dithered export of mix to MP3, or other means?. (I have USB and Bluetooth in car).
 
Ive been using Neutron, but haven't totally got into using the masking tool yet, but imagine it may allow for identifying these deficiencies in a mix, but one way or another you still have to listen to results.
(Funny I should relate to this as I spent a lot of my former career, setting up sound masking systems in offices)
Cheers        
 

I get a 1 to 2 db bass rise in the garage presumably from some resonance. If I pull out it drops to expected levels. Always has.

JohnEgan

Anderton
And it sounds better in a car 
 

 
Thanks,
So for the car thing, do you do a dithered export of mix to MP3, or other means?. (I have USB and Bluetooth in car).

 
I actually don't listen to music in cars, I did it just for diagnostic purposes until I came up with the "mixing with noise" replacement. This is for safety reasons...nothing can seize control of my mind faster than a good piece of music, so for me, it can be distraction which I don't want when driving.

I think most people listen in their car because they are actually most familiar with that system as they likely listen to commercial music mostly when commuting etc.   I don;t know if the actual driving simulation is critical or not.  For me, I listen mostly to XM radio and CDs while in my car and know exactly how stuff should sound where as much as I should, i do little recreational listening on my studio setup.  Therefore, I know, when it sounds good on my car system and blends with tracks that are on the radio etc, I know my mix is done.   OTHERWISE... Really cool idea here Craig!
 

Anderton
 
I actually don't listen to music in cars, I did it just for diagnostic purposes until I came up with the "mixing with noise" replacement. This is for safety reasons...nothing can seize control of my mind faster than a good piece of music, so for me, it can be distraction which I don't want when driving.

Sadly, I find myself more listening to news talk radio in the car these days,and wearing a hat, LOL. 

stxx
 i do little recreational listening on my studio setup.  

 
I do most of my recreational listening/video watching/jamming and entertaining with friends and other musicians in my home studio, to listen in a higher quality environment and system, if listening to music in the car, also XM radio, ( if not news talk radio). I just crank it up if there's any background noise issues, (although dont hear the sirens either, good thing they have flashing lights also, LOL, got a flashing doorbell light in studio :).
 
cheers