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  • How Do *You* Write Songs in Sonar?
2014/10/05 02:34:08
Anderton
I ask because I'm now going from start to finish on songs in less than a week of part-time activity...have a song pretty much done tonight (Saturday) I just started from nothing on Thursday night. I used to take forever to write and finish songs.
 
If you saw my "Songwriting on the Fast Track" seminar at GearFest 2014, you know my general approach but I thought it would be fun for all of us to compare notes on the songwriting process. Since I started the thread, I might as well kick it off.
 
1. First, you gotta grab the inspiration. I was doing a demo for a 12-string Dim Pro patch when I came up with a riff I liked. When the muse comes knocking, never tell her "I'm busy." She HATES that!! As this was a keyboard part, I could start right off in MIDI and not worry about tempo or key until later.
2. Once I have some chords it's time for drums. I realize this will be heresy in the land of Session Drummer and Addictive Drums, but I've never found anything better or more inspirational than the Discrete Drums loop libraries. Because the files are Acidized, I have some wiggle room for tempo.
3. I work non-linearly. For example, I often get the idea for the chorus first...but not always. I'll just stake a claim somewhere on the timeline and work on the different sections. Once I have sections blocked out, I group the clips and play around with the arrangement.
4. Once the arrangement is down, even if the parts are placeholders, I do the vocals. At this point there's likely no bass or leads, just chords and drums. I've learned not to become attached to vocals or lyrics, because what matters is the melody line. I came up with a set of lyrics on Thursday...on Friday I decided I didn't like the topic, but the music itself suggested some lyrics. This morning I decided I liked the lyrics, but the intro sucked so I rewrote that. Lyrics are like any kind of writing, they're meant to be edited. Vocals are IMHO the most important part of the song and all the subsequent parts are designed to support the vocal, so the vocal has to be there. I'll even do pitch correction if needed in parts, and take them pretty far. Sometimes these end up being keepers.
5. Now come the overdub, editing, and replacement parts for the placeholders. At this point the song has a soul and a direction so this is where the song comes to life...for me, the magic happens when the guitars start to go on. Then comes some ear candy, percussion, etc. At this point I'll add some plug-ins too, but I have a new type of plug-in concept I'm experimenting with and it's basically replaced about 70% of the plug-ins I used to use (except for the ProChannel). When I've got this nailed down you'll know about it, but even now it saves me a huge amount of time.
6. Next is mixing and mastering. I do a reference mix for levels as I go along so at this point it's mostly about doing automation changes to the static levels, clip gain if needed, etc.
7. I post the mix as an unlisted video on YouTube, and post the URL in my Sound, Studio, and Stage forum on Harmony Central. There are a bunch of people there who come up with great suggestions, so I call them the "SSS Production Squad." They usually come up with some great tweaks, so I do those, then do one final mix (thank you, automation).
 
I'd say the main thing I've learned with this approach is to keep each stage segmented. If I'm working on vocals, I don't think about mixing or overdubs. I don't do editing until the track is done, and the mixing that happens during the songwriting process is just setting static levels. The real mixing happens after the tracks are down, and a lot of it involves deleting anything non-essential from the song.
 
I've also learned not to be self-critical - the most important part is to get parts down. If they suck they can be replaced later, but you want to keep the momentum going when you're writing. Don't obsess, create...obsessing is for when you do the mixing and mastering. 
 
Anyway, this is what works for me BUT everyone has a different style and workflow. I'm interested in hearing what works for you because I'm always looking for better ways to streamline the songwriting process
 
 
 
 
2014/10/05 03:17:02
FastBikerBoy
Hi Craig, interesting finding out how others work.
 
I almost always start acoustically be that on guitar or piano. I have loads of bits and pieces recorded in freestyle i.e. no set tempo, saved into a folder called "Ideas" (Original name hey! ) Some never see the light of day others get fleshed out.
 
I tend to find that when I have the inspiration I'll get 6 or 7 good tunes out then it might be a couple of months before I get any decent ideas again. I never try and force it now but when I'm in the mood I record the ideas and then revisit them later.
 
When I do start, I get the structure of the song sorted out with a guide track, and use markers to mark the sections. That will either be an audio acoustic or MIDI piano. From there I'll usually put on a guide vocal as well, sometimes recorded at the same time as the guide track. I then put down drums usually from Addictive Drums. The only time that varies is if my drummer mate is around in which case we'll jam out the song and I'll record my guitar and his drums which then become the basis. Audio snap becomes my friend then for sorting out a tempo map for any MIDI stuff later.
 
Bass is then added and I'll usually start putting on some synth in places. I use arpeggios quite a lot for that. Then electric guitars and if I'm using an acoustic for the final mix I'll re-record that as well.
 
I usually start sorting out a rough "tracking mix" at this stage too, no automation at this stage apart from sometimes automated mute to cut out various instruments at certain points. I usually play a part for each instrument all the way through the song even if I'm 99% certain that I won't be using it all the way through.
 
Then I put vocals on the top and finally lead guitar if I'm putting a break in. All of my tracking is done before I even think about comping, vocal correction, mixing proper, etc..
 
The next stage is tidying up vocals, comping guitars etc. etc.
 
I save "landmark" projects at each point. i.e. My Project - tracking finished, My Project - Comping finished. That way I can always get back to a point and restart from there if I want to.
 
I find once I've finished tracking it usually has a completely different feel to the guide. Sometimes something that is almost a ballad at the guide stage becomes a rocking, "heavy" song once finished, or maybe the other way round. I don't know why it just sort of evolves that way and I go with the flow.
 
After all the ground work is finished I start mixing which I usually do relatively quickly, almost always all in one session. Once mixed I'll export it to cds and mp3 so I can listen to it in various situations, such as in my van when driving, etc. It's surprising the number of times I pick up instruments that are too low/high in the mix that way.
 
Then after a while I'll remix, and repeat that until I'm happy. Then I "master" it myself using Ozone as the main tool usually and repeat the export/listen on different equipment bit until I'm happy.
 
One thing I have done over the last couple of years is force myself to finish a project before starting another. Not so long ago I'd have five or six songs on the go all in various stages of completion and that definitely wasn't very conducive to getting them finished.
2014/10/05 03:59:55
Chregg
i usually have an idea in my head wat im aiming for, and start to try and program the sounds that are in my head i.e kicks,main hooks, basslines and so on, and start just laying **** down, once i have a flow with a bit of energy, it just all starts to come together, but i do get stuck in that loop lol
2014/10/05 09:06:11
shawn@trustmedia.tv
My songs are almost always instrumental and whenever I get the bug to make a track I think of a word or two or three and that is the mood for my song. Then it's ussually onto patch surfing or beat exploring to fulfill the mood.
 

2014/10/05 11:01:26
MondoArt
This isn't related directly to using Sonar, but I co-host a weekly streaming radio program about songwriting, and we talk quite a bit about process, how songs begin, ideas, etc.  We have a songwriter guest every week.  Check us out:
www.songtalk.ca
 
2014/10/05 19:16:19
SvenArne
Anything I ever came up with that didn't start with a sung melody always turned out stupid. Sometimes amusingly so, though...
2014/10/05 21:11:18
mettelus
+1, I habitually start with a sung melody which will always give a rough tempo and key. These can be adjusted as the process progresses, but I tend to focus on lyrical content and judicious use of sound bites.
2014/10/05 23:16:53
lawajava
mettelus
+1, I habitually start with a sung melodies which will always give a rough tempo and key. These can be adjusted as the process progresses, but I tend to focus on lyrical content and judicious use of sound bites.




That's my method as well.  I often get inspiration from a melody and go from there.  Lyrics, or lack thereof, ultimately slow down what would be a very quick process with all of this Sonar wizardry at hand.  It's amazing to me how quickly the music can come together from a simple melodic idea.  It's also amazing to me how much of a wall I smash into when I don't have lyrics and I can't get the song out of sketch mode without lyrics (if I don't want it to be an instrumental).
2014/10/05 23:50:52
johnnyV
I keep my Tascam Dr 40 handy ( That's why they call them handy recorders right! ;) 
So 90% of my songs start life as a banging on guitar and moaning and groaning the melody for the lyrics. Sometimes there is a guitar hook that drives it sometimes a lyrical idea. I'll store a bunch of these and then one day I'll listen to them and pick one that was the the best of the lot. 
 
First step is to determine a drum style / tempo and I will dust of my Roland 505 as it is always patched to my mixer. ( old habit)
or use the metronome when I'm not sure where I'm going yet.
So down goes a solid acoustic or electric rhythm track that finalizes the arrangement. 
I'm good at quick decisions about arranging after learning a 1000 cover tunes. :)
The vocals might still be non lyrical melody idea. ( la la la )
Next the kick via Keyboard controller.
Next the Bass locked to the kick. I'm a real bass player and often the bass line is one of the better parts of my songs. 
Next the rest of drums via Yamaha DTX 400- editing a must!
Now I have to write the lyrics.
If not, the song will die and be lost in the ozone only to be discovered 3 years later.
Sing the song
Now the fun parts like lead solos and some keyboard parts. 
Done
 
I have often finished songs in a solid 6 hour session. If I don't finish fast then they are left hanging. 
 
 And great idea for a thread Greg. I hope most of the regulars chime in. It's fabulously cool to see that there will be no 2 people working with Sonar as a songwriting tool the same way. Some of us will be traditional starting with a real instrument, the guitar and piano being the weapon of choice. We seem to then record in almost the traditional way with the exception we can do the whole thing ourselves now.  Then there will probably be the majority using the plethora of new creative approaches to making music with all these new fangled gadgets I'll never understand.   
2014/10/06 00:48:36
orangesporanges
My method almost always revolves around harmony. (DISCLAIMER: I'm a jazz guy by schooling, harmony is my thing)
1)I get the chordal ideas in my head from a tune on the radio, a commercial etc. think "what about this?" and hammer out some voices on guitar that start in the right place, end in the right place, and make a clear (at least to me) path from one to the other.
2) now I need the groove, I can usually begin to get what I want from strumming the chords. Search midi files in SD, AD or BIAB. If I find something in Band in a Box that's bonus 'cuz I can input the chords , play with the styles and get some pretty  immediate feedback as to whether this thing is gonna fly.
3) If it's vocal, it's equal parts melody and cadence, 'cuz you can almost always get your point across given these constraints and the tune doesn't suffer. ( If you doubt, right a haiku some time)
4) material. Time for a walk in the rain LOL. Make sure the hook line or chorus isn't stupid,( i'm just gonna party, party party party, all my friends they party, yeah, all night long) a metaphor is often esoteric and "artsy fartsy" enough to make people think and lends itself to a little ambiguity.
5) If everything is cohesive, time to anchor it down with an appropriate bass line. Add texture , extra instruments if necessary.
6) Play with faders a lot! There maybe some gems hidden in the mix, or two instruments fighting for the same turf.
7) now the gloss and polish, EQ, ambience, special efx if called for. One thing I'm a stickler for, is it almost always needs SUBTRACTIVE EQ at the individual track level. make everything sit where you think it should.
 8) Give it to the inner circle for approval, critique.Put it in your car and listen to it till you know every square inch of it.
9) Question why that one guy is even in the "inner circle" anyway, make corrections, adjustments, automation, when the mix is sounding good, put last comp on master bus, print.
that maybe over simplistic ,but it's a general road map for my work flow.
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