millzyI get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 

Well, for a start MacOS's Core Audio and Core MIDI mean there's no need to worry about setting up special configurations that disable cpu sleep modes, core parking, etc. to get consistent very low latency performance. That alone counts for a lot.

OS updates generally don't result in the kind of issues that see lots of threads on this and other forums. Updates aren't pushed or compulsory either.

If you need MIDI over wi-fi or a virtual MIDI cable they're built in to the OS and "just work". No problems using wifi or bluetooth at the same time as a DAW either. Good, native wireless MIDI networking is one reason you see Macs on stages rather than laptop PCs.

Another factor is the hardware consistency. Let's say my gigging MacBook died or was stolen. I could order a replacement and have it in 24 hours if bog standard, a few days if customised. And then be absolutely certain I can stream my backup image onto it in a few hours and it will work. There's no assurance that's the case with laptop PCs. I could even do fly gigs carrying just a USB drive or some DVDs, ask the promoter/venue to provide a Mac to the required spec and install my stuff onto it in a couple of hours or less.

Use the bootcamp drivers and you're running a Windows computer with all that entails, good and bad.

It's just a small snapshot I know, but I was at a small, quite unique and very informal festival over the weekend. "Small" in terms of audience capacity, but some very well known established bands in their fields (and in at least one case internationally for nearly 50 years). Every computer on stage, running the mix or lights/on-the-fly video projection had a glowing apple on the back of it. A few iPads as well. Not a single PC, and talking to people, both band members and musicians amongst the audience, I suspect that might be the case for some time.

What a large studio requires of a computer system and what a project studio or live work calls for are rather different things.

Keni
So...
No one else is having trouble installing it?
After claiming successful installation. Trying to launch reports it as incomplete or damaged. I've re-done the install several times as well as the download (my first copy was reported as damaged during install)
I notice that the app shows as zero bytes... No size. So I'm guessing that's a sign of the problem? 
Any ideas?

Can you send me a PM with your system settings and I can try to help?

tlw

millzyI get the hassle of having to install Windows, then Sonar, but are there really performance issues? When you say 'underpowered', does running Windows on a Mac somehow downgrade the performance of the Mac? Sorry, still trying to understand apart from the hassle of installing another OS on the machine, what the Bootcamp issues are. 

Well, for a start MacOS's Core Audio and Core MIDI mean there's no need to worry about setting up special configurations that disable cpu sleep modes, core parking, etc. to get consistent very low latency performance. That alone counts for a lot.

OS updates generally don't result in the kind of issues that see lots of threads on this and other forums. Updates aren't pushed or compulsory either.

If you need MIDI over wi-fi or a virtual MIDI cable they're built in to the OS and "just work". No problems using wifi or bluetooth at the same time as a DAW either. Good, native wireless MIDI networking is one reason you see Macs on stages rather than laptop PCs.

Another factor is the hardware consistency. Let's say my gigging MacBook died or was stolen. I could order a replacement and have it in 24 hours if bog standard, a few days if customised. And then be absolutely certain I can stream my backup image onto it in a few hours and it will work. There's no assurance that's the case with laptop PCs. I could even do fly gigs carrying just a USB drive or some DVDs, ask the promoter/venue to provide a Mac to the required spec and install my stuff onto it in a couple of hours or less.

Use the bootcamp drivers and you're running a Windows computer with all that entails, good and bad.

It's just a small snapshot I know, but I was at a small, quite unique and very informal festival over the weekend. "Small" in terms of audience capacity, but some very well known established bands in their fields (and in at least one case internationally for nearly 50 years). Every computer on stage, running the mix or lights/on-the-fly video projection had a glowing apple on the back of it. A few iPads as well. Not a single PC, and talking to people, both band members and musicians amongst the audience, I suspect that might be the case for some time.

What a large studio requires of a computer system and what a project studio or live work calls for are rather different things.

I agree that Macbooks are still coveted as live tools, sometimes for the right reasons and sometimes because people feel they aren't "pro" if they don't have one (like Nord pianos).

Fair point about the wireless networking midi too, I haven't really needed it often but it was kind of a pain when I tried. I don't really buy the hardware consistency because that works as well and as badly for PC, you're just comparing one brand (Apple) to many brands (all PCs). If my Clevo laptop dies I can buy the same one or an updated one and it will work fine too, same as with Apple. Obviously not all PC laptops are interchangeable.

But the main thing I find baffling from your post is the assertion that updates don't break anything on OSX, because in my experience OSX updates break things far more often than Windows updates do. I get emails from Native Instruments multiple times a year to please wait with updating my OSX because they need to adapt a driver or an installer or a program. If there is anything Apple deliberately doesn't care for it's backwards compatibility, because it messes with their business model - they sell hardware, primarily. They need you to update every so few years. Microsoft makes an OS that they and it's in their interest to make and keep it compatible with as much hardware and software as they can feasibly ensure.

I think Microsoft have come along way with Windows 10 for stability.  I've been playing live for about 10 years with laptops running windows and only had a couple of problems mainly with hard drives and bass but that has not been a problem since I moved to using only SSD's.  
 
It only takes a couple of hours to get a laptop ready to play live but it helps that I use an RME interface and stick to a basic install of Ableton Live plus a couple of VST plugins I know work well.  In a windows laptop I can also upgrade memory and SSD very quickly unlike the new Macs. 
 

Caa2

nice

I bought a Mac Book Pro for my missus. Neither of us really got used to the GUI after so many years of being on Windows. Liked the laptop... Nice and light, no fan, but we ended up not using it at all.
 
My son took it off our hands and installed Windows 10 on it. Works a treat...
 

Well then, Logic Pro it is!  With Windows so inconsistent, I cannot afford to lose money from clients because Microsoft decided they had a better idea for my system and implement it without asking.  Yeah, I know they have supposedly changed the update process, but it's not the first time they have said that. 
 
I've been with Cakewalk since version 2.0 DOS, it was a pretty good run, but it's over.

Sanderxpander

But the main thing I find baffling from your post is the assertion that updates don't break anything on OSX, because in my experience OSX updates break things far more often than Windows updates do. I get emails from Native Instruments multiple times a year to please wait with updating my OSX because they need to adapt a driver or an installer or a program. If there is anything Apple deliberately doesn't care for it's backwards compatibility, because it messes with their business model - they sell hardware, primarily. They need you to update every so few years. Microsoft makes an OS that they and it's in their interest to make and keep it compatible with as much hardware and software as they can feasibly ensure.

FWIW, my wife's 2010 MacBook pro runs sierra just as smooth as butter. It obviously lacks in the raw computing power of a modern machine, which shows in video render time,but the point is, a 7 year old laptop can run the latest OS on the mac side and it be very usable. Try running a 7 year old PC with the latest versions of windows. Sludgefest. Not a pleasant experience at all. This kind of throws a wrench into your argument that Apple does not care about backwards compatibility where as MS do. Not the case. MS continues to add more layers of bloat until you need a new machine to have a decent experience just checking email. NI have only given me warnings when OSX went to new point releases. Never on an update. You might own different products though so that might be why.
I've had 3 windows 10 machines perform an update then boot to a blackscreen, requiring a complete reinstall/reimage. Never experienced anything like that on Mac.
Consistency is why I went to the dark side. Professionally, Im not concerned joe blows PC can run 350 compressors and mine only 325. If joe blow updates his video card, his 350 could turn into 275. Not looking back now. In 3 years my Mac's have never let me down. I know lots of guys have great success with PC's too, many on here in fact. Bottom line , they all want your $$   :)
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 
 
Its a question of damned if you do and damned if you dont... The whole plan for the mac release last year was always to phase it. i.e. there is absolutely no way a full port could be done of SONAR with our limited resources. So we partnered with code weavers who are experts in this area. The original goal was to use this approach to start and GRADUALLY phase in more and more native elements as the project progressed in parallel, based on user feedback. This is an absolutely feasible way to do a cross platform port and many other companies have
done it. But it would be many years before a fully A/B compatible port would be ready. Its quite amazing actually the amount that works in the first alpha! The biggest part of any cross platform port is actually not audio but other areas like GUI, inter-operation with other programs, etc.
 
BTW most people bashing Crossover/Wine simply don't know enough about it. I worked on Wine many years ago (developing it not using it) and it essentially serves as a porting framework. If something doesn't work efficiently you are free to change it and improve it. That's the approach that Codeweavers takes and we were working with them on optimizing it so that performance was acceptable.
 
Anyway there is always a risk with pre announcing anything since some percentage of people will have different expectations. Could we have managed expectations better, sure. I know that anyone who contacted us was told that this was going to be an alpha release. The reason its home studio is because that has a simpler set of features that were achievable to port for the alpha and to remove licensing issues.
 

Thank you for the explanation, Noel.