• SONAR
  • The SONAR Mac Prototype, a collaboration between Cakewalk and CodeWeavers (p.18)
2017/04/23 16:09:59
Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
Blades
I was actually a little surprised when this news came out the other day.  Personally, I'm somewhere between "I don't care" and "yahoo" but there is definitely a bit of "you mislead people" with the release announcement.  For a few reasons, this is bothersome:
 
1. You said this as part of a MAJOR announcement and there was a LOT of fanfare around this statement to hype up what a big deal it was going to be.
 
2. You called it an ALPHA release.  Generally, this would be a release of a project that was being BUILD not one that was being "adapted" to another OS/CPU.  The whole idea that this was just a conversion and not a re-write for Mac was not what I was expecting (as someone who has no Mac interest and therefore didn't really care about such a release except that it seemed likely to disrupt the PC development) and I have to think that Mac people were pretty hurt by this news.
 
It kind of seems like if we suddenly heard that the labeling of "USDA 100% Organic" on food labels meant something like "we took the non-organic stuff and washed it in organic cleaners".
 
Again - I'm pretty happy in general that the end-result is that Cakewalk will continue to spend their time, money, and effort on enhancing the PC version of the software, but it doesn't give me great confidence in the MESSAGE that the company sends to their user base.  There was a lot of paranoia about the "lifetime updates" (which I have purchased) expiring or being replaced with a new product that was really a continuation of Sonar called Radar or something and Cakewalk being able to "get out of" the lifetime updates because of a product name change.  With this Mac announcement, that paranoia sounds a little less "reaching", I think.
 
Must. Work. On. Trust.


I agree with you that Cakewalk mishandled this announcement last summer, and both Cakewalk staff and customers are not super happy with how this SONAR Mac initiative played out - from beginning to end. We've damaged trust in the process, and we'll have to earn that back.
 
On the product side, we currently have three initiatives going on in parallel - SONAR is one, and the other two are new ideas that do not compete with SONAR, nor are they designed to replace SONAR.
 
So if you're a SONAR customer or a Lifetime Updates customer, going forward please know that we're solid on this product and this model - no bait and switch - you guys are our blood, and we want to do right by you.
2017/04/23 17:47:35
ampfixer
Well now you've got my attention. That's quite a little tidbit for a Sunday afternoon. 
2017/04/23 17:59:20
Kamikaze
Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
 
I agree with you that Cakewalk mishandled this announcement last summer, and both Cakewalk staff and customers are not super happy with how this SONAR Mac initiative played out - from beginning to end. We've damaged trust in the process, and we'll have to earn that back.
 
 




 
Cough "Staff View" Cough
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

2017/04/23 19:55:52
Piotr
Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
[...]
Third, we realized that trying to bring the full SONAR experience to the Mac would take away from what we do best - create the world's finest software for the Windows platform.
[...]



This was exactly what many of us suggested and was afraid of...
2017/04/23 20:25:45
C Hudson
Brian Walton
Have you actually run a 7 year old PC with Windows 10? I have and without any notable issue.

Yup, I did. Not a fan.
2017/04/23 23:29:59
mudgel
C Hudson
Brian Walton
Have you actually run a 7 year old PC with Windows 10? I have and without any notable issue.

Yup, I did. Not a fan.


I'm running a 2011 HP laptop with Win 10 Pro. No problems.
2017/04/24 06:18:16
Brad Russell
You know, after years of loyalty to the Sonar product line I lost faith in the direction of the Company (during the Roland days). V-Studio support anyone?? That was a very disappointing season for the company. It was during that time that I switched to the Mac platform for audio production. Since Gibson has taken the helm it really seems that the company is innovating again and is on a firm footing. I love the direction the company is headed in, so I'm sad that the Mac version isn't happening. I like using products make by companies that are doing great things. Why not switch back if I like Sonar so much? Well, that's the deal. 
 
Much of the Mac vs. PC debate here is just silly. There are trade offs with everything. I know there are plenty of people who can share their experience, but I just thought I'd share mine. Here are the pros and cons of my experience for anyone who is interested. This is not a debate over which is better. This is an explanation of my experience.
 
Cons
1. Apple hardware is expensive when compared to PCs with comparable specs. A new computer set me back more than it had with a PC.
2. The company (Apple) has shifted it's focus away from the pro market to a large extent. This results in a frustratingly slow timeline for Product Line Updates. (Case in point - the Mac Pro)
3. The company seems to be preoccupied with features that work against the goals of the pro market. In MacBook Pro Line they sacrifice usability for size. This is also true for the Mac Pro. 
4. The annual release of a new OS tends to adversely affect 3rd party vendors (and ultimately the end user). Drivers break due to changes in core audio architecture. Vendors often delay updates by 90 days or so, to develop and test once the OS release candidate is deployed. 
5. The company has largely moved away from user upgradability for their products. Proprietary design for storage and weird decisions to solder things to the logic board stand in the way of upgrading hardware. I particularly dislike this.
6. The company tends to abandon it's own innovations in the name of progress causing inconvenience (even if temporary) to the end user. Firewire, Thunderbolt, Magsafe, etc. The PC market tends to adopt more "universal" :) standards which take longer to phase out. Backward compatability seems to be a higher value in the PC market.
 
Pros
1. The build quality and design is generally excellent. Unibody design, magsafe (now abandoned), trackpad, magic mouse, etc. Apple sets the bar in most cases. Of course, competition has become more fierce in this respect, but Apple builds quality products.
2. While the OS gets updated anually, the basic user interface remains the same in function. It gets an update aesthetically, but they don't change how you do basic things like launch apps, and power down. This, IMO, is a great strength. The company has always placed a high priority on the user experience, and they do not make sweeping changes because they know their users. There will always be those who say, "I don't like it. I like this or that." The fact still remains, this is a key to the loyalty of the user base.
3. Updates - while the frequency of security updates and bug fixes has increased some over the last few years, the experience is almost completely painless. I've not used Windows 10, so I can't give a current comparison, but my experience was that, almost immediately, using a computer became for more hassle free. It still is. (Especially where audio equipment is concerned) You just have to be careful with OS updates, and you're fine.
4. Logic - I love Sonar, and I'd love to have a Mac Version, but Logic is also a pleasure to use. That's not my point here, so I will not expound much. All I will say is this: At $199 it's a bargain. Since it's owned by Apple you don't have quirky issues with OS compatibility.
 
I'm not a Mac fanatic. I'm just a Mac user. If and when a Windows PC takes the lead providing a platform that doesn't get in the way, I just may switch. To me it's only about the work, not the equipment. I just want an experience that inspires me and doesn't get in the way.
 
Anyway, that's where I am. 
 
Peace to all.
 
 
2017/04/24 06:39:08
better5150
+1
2017/04/24 07:16:34
Brad Russell
Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
 

I agree with you that Cakewalk mishandled this announcement last summer, and both Cakewalk staff and customers are not super happy with how this SONAR Mac initiative played out - from beginning to end. We've damaged trust in the process, and we'll have to earn that back.
 
On the product side, we currently have three initiatives going on in parallel - SONAR is one, and the other two are new ideas that do not compete with SONAR, nor are they designed to replace SONAR.
 
So if you're a SONAR customer or a Lifetime Updates customer, going forward please know that we're solid on this product and this model - no bait and switch - you guys are our blood, and we want to do right by you.




I have to say. I don't think the problem was as much about last summer's announcement as it was this week's. It's ok to fail at a noble idea if you just admit it and say "Sorry. Here's what we were able to accomplish on it. It's our gift to you." (Which is essentially what the first part of your announcement was) Why would you need to then list your great accomplishments for the product on the Windows Platform? For Mac users that's sort of the whole problem. That's like promising your kids a trip to Disney World, realizing you don't have the money, and then saying, "Hey, but I rebuilt the carborator in that 57 Chevy that everybody loves, and then I built a great tree fort for the next door neighbor's kids." The announcement did little to appease the Mac users who were hoping for good news. I think most people had pretty much decided it wasn't going to happen anyway. This sort of made it look like the effort was thrown together to meet an obligation and then claimed to be the goal all along. Maybe that's not how it was, but that's honestly what I thought.  Now, I'm sure the announcement was great to bolster confidence among current Sonar users. It underscored you commitment to the Windows platform. Maybe that was the point, but it left me scratching my head. 
 
Anyway, no harm no foul. It was just a few months of hopeful expectation. That's not a terrible thing. 
2017/04/24 08:13:06
tenfoot
Is it just me,  or are some people making a bit much of this? Cakewalk decided to give a mac version a try, then decided in the long run it wasn't worth their while. Sonar will carry on. You can boot camp your mac or there are other native DAW's for macOS. Not that serious in the grand scheme of things really.
 
You would think that Cakewalk had promised a lifetime of happiness only to leave us standing at the alter:)
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