Anderton
Show of hands: How many have actually downloaded and tried the Mac version? I sure like it more than GarageBand...

I downloaded it and tried it and really liked it as far as I could tell. It won't work with any of my interfaces at the moment (motu and NI) but it seemed really stable just using the onboard audio. If it would load 3rd party plugins I could see me use it. However, with Logic on my macs I think I will reach for that first. But Sonar looked really good on the Mac
 
I really appreciate that Cakewalk gave it a go. Too bad it didn't work out but that's life I guess. I didn't stop using Sonar in my personal studio because I don't like it. I just couldn't stand to work with Windows anymore and Sonar became a sore sacrifice when I switched to Macs. 

Anderton
Show of hands: How many have actually downloaded and tried the Mac version? I sure like it more than GarageBand...

Had the announcement been "here's a MacOS native release. So far it handles what Home Studio does, but we will be developing it further and are very interested in feedback about how it runs" then I'd have downloaded it immediately.
 
But it's not that. It's a dead-end product that's far less capable than Logic Pro or Live, both of which I already have. If I want something basic I can use Garageband on iOS and transfer the results into Logic for further work. So I see little to zero point in installing it.
 
Now, if Cakewalk were to do a Mac AU version of the Concrete Limiter as well as the CA-2A and at a sensible price, that I would buy. Especially if I didn't need the Cakewalk software manager occupying disk space - the Mac CA-2A didn't originally need it after all.

Anderton
Show of hands: How many have actually downloaded and tried the Mac version? I sure like it more than GarageBand...

I downloaded it and looked around in it for a few minutes. I played the demo and opened a new project. It looks like it could be useful to record a few tracks of audio, but I need access to my plugin library to do any work. 
 

Anderton
Show of hands: How many have actually downloaded and tried the Mac version? I sure like it more than GarageBand...

What for?

timidi

Anderton
Show of hands: How many have actually downloaded and tried the Mac version? I sure like it more than GarageBand...

What for?

1. I have a MacBook Pro with a collection of songwriting tools. It travels with me a lot, and now that there's a Mac version of SONAR, I can start projects on the Mac when inspiration hits and then open them directly in my main computer when I get to the studio. I didn't have anywhere near the same "ease of transfer" with GarageBand. 
2. To see how the emulation works compared to the native version on Windows, in order to determine if it's viable for someone's particular needs. My reaction was "much better than expected," so for the reason given in (1), I'll keep SONAR Mac on my MacBook Pro (or its successor) until the Mac OS changes to the point where SONAR doesn't run any more.
 
I also wanted to see if the people commenting on how "emulation sucks" had actually tried it, or were just speculating.

Anderton

forkol

Anderton
There were some comments about how using Codeweavers was misleading, but my understanding is that the concept of starting off with translation and then replacing parts of the code until the program is fully native is fairly common. (IIRC that's what's happening with FL Studio's Mac version.)
 

 
I think it was misleading by omission.  Saying that this was the 'real deal' 'Sonar running on a Mac' 'and not using any Bootcamp Trick' leads you to believe it's native.

 
Well, if Cakewalk had continued down this path, eventually (accent on "eventually") it would have become more and more native. So calling it an emulation or calling it native would be equally incorrect.

I'm not talking about what it WOULD have been called, it was what they were calling it THEN.  Now you say many users won't care what it is called.  That's probably true.  However, it's a decision point for me whether it's an emulation, versus native run.  Emulation to me usually means it takes a performance hit versus a native app (assuming like hardware is used for both).
 

Anderton
Kind of reminds me of Vista in a way. Microsoft kept doing updates to it and after a while, it essentially became Windows 7 even though it still said it was Vista.

The big difference here is that Vista is native to begin with, so it's much easier to 'tweak'.
 

Anderton

forkolWhy would somebody want an emulation when they could have Sonar with Bootcamp that performs much better? 

 
To be able to access the Mac parts of the computer (files etc.). Bootcamp turns your Mac into a PC, so anything that's "pure Mac" doesn't exist. Also again if Cakewalk had pursued this, it would have become more native over time, whereas that wouldn't happen under bootcamp.

Ok, I guess that's a good reason, but tbh, it's pretty easy to transfer data/sound files between systems now, especially since things like cloud-based storage reduce platform dependence.   Code/system files would have been different anyway and could not be shared regardless.  Dedicated audio interface hardware is another good reason, but virtually all decent hardware manufacturers support both PC and MacOS, except of course, Apple.
 
Also, I am not sure if it's really easily possible to have an emulated/native architecture co-exist and evolve it over time.  FL Studio tried this, and they pretty much ran into the same roadblocks Cakewalk did.  The decided to forge on and tackle the VSTnative conversions, learning valuable things that they used to start converting FLS, but they are still working on it at least 4 years later....

forkol

Anderton
There were some comments about how using Codeweavers was misleading, but my understanding is that the concept of starting off with translation and then replacing parts of the code until the program is fully native is fairly common. (IIRC that's what's happening with FL Studio's Mac version.)

 
I think it was misleading by omission.  Saying that this was the 'real deal' 'Sonar running on a Mac' 'and not using any Bootcamp Trick' leads you to believe it's native.

 
According to Noel, both the PC and Mac versions run the same code, which is why the files are compatible. So if it's running the actual SONAR code, I can see why Cakewalk would consider it as SONAR running on a Mac.
 

However, it's a decision point for me whether it's an emulation, versus native run.  Emulation to me usually means it takes a performance hit versus a native app (assuming like hardware is used for both).

 
Whether there's a performance hit is less important to me than whether the performance is usable for what I want to do, as noted in my previous post. Frankly, there probably aren't a lot of people in my situation with a MacBook Pro they haul around, a full-on Windows machine in the studio, a relatively heavy travel schedule, and a desire to write songs on the road which can transfer easily to a different OS. But for those who do, SONAR Mac could be a welcome addition.

I'd go for an iPad version...

Anderton
I also wanted to see if the people commenting on how "emulation sucks" had actually tried it, or were just speculating.

In my experience, there's only a few cases where emulation is worth it.  One good example is when you have older hardware/systems are obsolete and you can build an emulator on a faster system (like the MAME arcade).  Another case is when you have hardware that is expensive or exotic or radically different than what you own and you are trying to test or develop software on it and can live with a performance hit (like some Virtual Machine software).
 
Otherwise, emulations generally do suck.  If this works for folks, then have at it.
I don't have a Mac, but for my use case, it's a waste of time to test it even if I had one. I run lots of VST's and effects in my music, and it's my opinion that I can buy much better PC hardware cheaper than the aged hardware Apple's pushing.  Finally, it's a DOA product.

Anderton
 
 
Well, if Cakewalk had continued down this path, eventually (accent on "eventually") it would have become more and more native. So calling it an emulation or calling it native would be equally incorrect.
 
Kind of reminds me of Vista in a way. Microsoft kept doing updates to it and after a while, it essentially became Windows 7 even though it still said it was Vista.
 
It's also important to note that this is not the same world as trying to emulate Windows Intel on a Mac PPC machine. The Intel-to-Intel element makes life easier.
 
 

Each OS has their own nuances and tricks as far as optimizing code. The reason Cakewalk runs so good on Windows is that Noel and all know how to get the best performance and "tricks" to throw in the code . This is specific to each OS as each has different driver models, Kernal structuring etc. You can not take windows code and "convert" it to a different OS and expect it perform the same. A Mac OS app "ported" to Windows will never perform as well as a native Windows app developed by a team who knows Windows . The reciprocal is true.
What would have had to happen is a team of separate developers within cake, start from scratch coding for Mac OS utilizing Core technologies such as core audio and audio units. Again, using developers who understanding Mac OS, as well as the bakers know Windows. Pumping windows code through a converter then fixing what broke in translation, is not, and will never be, the same.
 
Noel is sort of right in that the code started out the same. Once it was "converted" though the code has more in common with Unix than C++. MS Word files can be opened on both platforms. The applications couldn't be more different. MS has separate developers for their office suites. MS knows you can't do what Cakewalk did.
If it was the same, I could run Sonar platinum on Mac. Having compatible file formats is not a indication of the code that authored them. To say so is very naive and I know Noel is incredibly intelligent .
 
Anyhow, this is all for naught as Sonar on Mac is dead. Gibson did not give them the resources to do it right.  What they have put out will never be updated or expanded on according to the press release. Time to call it what it is and move on.