• SONAR
  • Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS (p.2)
2017/06/27 17:47:04
Sanderxpander
Thanks! I mainly use Live and Sonar, I doubt Sibelius or Maschine care for my basic use of those.
2017/06/27 18:45:35
Sir Les
bitflipper
Two points to keep in mind. First, MMCSS was invented mainly for the purpose of avoiding audio dropouts, and secondarily to prevent system hangs due to CPU hogs (e.g. the audio driver!). Second, SONAR manages MMCSS itself, and it knows what it needs. Disabling MMCSS might help some applications, but would take away the ability of MMCSS-aware applications to manage their own thread priorities. Like SONAR.
 
Every DAW manages thread priorities differently, so beware of generic advice that might have been formulated by, say, an Ableton Live user. That observer's experiences might well differ from your own.
 
Some people complain that SONAR is one of the few Windows-only DAWs and (inexplicably) pine for a Mac port -- I feel exactly the opposite: SONAR's tight integration into and exclusive focus on Windows is a good thing!
 
P.S. I was typing my reply at the same time as Timur Born, and might not have replied had I known he was about to weigh in. Listen to this guy, he is an expert.



I want a port to something that works flawlessly with Sonar, or any other DAW and Video editing Software...on PC or parts for computer...or recording as a good scribe should.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2017/06/27 20:43:23
jpetersen
There was a thread at the top of this forum (no gone), titled something like:
"Your DAW is not a game".
 
Might be worth looking that up again. (must confess, I just skimmed over it)
2017/06/28 05:53:34
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Timur Born
My opinion is that DAWs should handle their priorities, including MMCSS priorities of their audio driver thread. Unfortunately Steinberg thinks differently and did not allow me to persuade them otherwise. According to the current ASIO standard every audio driver should use MMCSS permanently for ASIO. In practice this is not the case, especially for older hardware.
 
Some software even gets in trouble when the audio driver pushes its own thread to MMCSS while the DAW threads run at lower priorities. Two examples are Reaper before it introduced MMCSS on its own and Live before it included a (non optional) workaround that forces the driver threads back down to priority 15 (non MMCSS). I know of at least one intermediate Live version where this ceased to work, but was fixed again later.
 
It's still a mess, which is why RME's driver allows to switch driver based MMCSS on/off. Since Sonar handles MMCSS by itself you should turn the RME driver MMCSS option *off*, for Cubase should turn it on, other software varies.




It would be really good if Noel could comment on that subject ... best practice in terms of what settings to use with drivers most often found in the Sonar community apart from RME ...
2017/06/28 07:21:02
Timur Born
In 2010 or 2011 Noel answered in an interview:
 
"In SONAR with ASIO or other driver modes, we automatically register all relevant threads to use MMCSS so there is no need for a driver to do this. I'm not sure why driver vendors are setting thread priorities for MMCSS since this is really a host function. You should make sure that MMCSS is NOT enabled at the driver level or bad things will happen."
 
I agree with Noel that this should be a host function, unfortunately Steinberg - and thus the ASIO specs - do not. In theory every current ASIO driver should use MMCSS for its driver threads now, in practice this likely is not the case. We are talking about the single main driver thread every DAW is using. All the additional multi-core threads created by a DAW are handled by the DAW. Problems can (and do) arise when the priority of these threads are different.
 
DAWs that do not support MMCSS get in trouble when the driver thread uses MMCSS (24-26) while all their own multi-core threads do not (15). Live was one example, before they implemented a workaround that forced the driver's MMCSS thread back down to 15. Reaper was another example, before they implemented MMCSS.
 
DAWs that do support MMCSS only for their own multi-core threads (24-26) may get in trouble when the driver thread does not use MMCSS (15). Cubase is an example of this, because it expects the driver to do its own MMCSS, which older drivers are incapable of.
 
DAWs that support MMCSS for driver and multi-core threads (Sonar) usually may or may not care when the driver uses its own MMCSS priority. This is where Noel suggested that Sonar may get in trouble. The reason is that Sonar may use slightly different MMCSS priorities than the driver. That being said, in the past there was a difference between Sonar and the RME driver priority (24 vs. 26) and it did not really cause much of any issues. At one point Sonar changed ASIO MMCSS priority from 24 to 26, too.
2017/06/28 15:47:25
arachnaut
I've  just played with the Affinity setting (used #55555555 to allow every other core).
 
This was at
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Pro Audio
 
It doesn't seem to work. The technical docs from MS mentioned above
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms684247(v=vs.85).aspx
says that a lot of the registry keys in there are not even used, maybe this is one.
 
I was expecting Sonar to use every other logical core - one physical core - exclusively.
 
I was trying to solve this problem:
 
Is Hyperthreading bad for Reaktor?
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3623533
 
 
2017/06/28 19:13:42
Sir Les
Well this is too deep for my understandings...sorry if I ruffle feathers, and make things difficult to understand my meanings.
As a witnessing here with PC, and windows...resetting settings....no matter what you do in regedits....if it conflicts with MS construct and will or method they want to use your machine for....if you make change to working parts of that process...and hack into to make work, ...in user controls..or edits...and it hampers their wants or desires over ruling your wants and desires...if it harms their seeking intel..or market shares of underhanded gained information of desires for to buy or sell...market shares insider knowledge of movements towards or against....ethical or moral or unions ....either or...said or made known....anything to harm their estate of so called control over....They can reset any settings...overwrite any changes...and or turn off or sabotage your belongings tied to this machine.
 
also tied to electrical...any electronic device, can and will be used against anyone trying to undermine them.
 
 
Who are they?......The fallen ones!
 
ugly war mongering bastards killing life, at a alarming rate of decay....they hate Humans?....no, they are Humans!...unkind to one who made all life live....And the only reason is....they cannot rule it long with lies and liars, bent and twisted....it goes to chaos!.
 
 
So, Give, share, caring for the whole hole of life....is the proper way to live....They hate that way?.
 
 
Yes!
 
 
So, why waste time hacking into this regedit?....they will only overwrite it with a forced update, if you undo, what they want done....turn your home into a trace track and base to launch mayhem from to attack other nations with..a bot...a node...and place of resting in your home...doing things, you know not are being done....spying on all....
 
 
 
Where is the Trust in that first put to do?...is imposing on..to make mistrust...in that...a means to continue to make warfare necessary.
 
 
Look....is internet now becoming not a safe place also?.
 
That is showing up in the news as being virus laden...and entrapments also...and debased mind is on electrical put...negative and positive thoughts....some say conspiracy theory...using assumed or assumption...and some using reasoning skills of wisdom and math....things are occurring of, nature as signs, signets, and same old stories said are myth...no longer so...animanls are being harmed now...life is being poisoned by industrial madness.
 
Food is not safe in some circles of news....Flour making people sick?.
meat not good to eat said safe?...but holds same sicknesses..is all tied to..money?...surely not all!
 
But we see some of this is abounding in measure..not decressing...it is wide spread...and the system is spreading it.
 
 
I would say...time to listen..to the spirit of Truth.
 
If my machine, was reset my settings....what do you think regedit will do, if they do not like your tweakings of it, if it hampers their desires to use or open, to use your machine for their bent attacks on ....enemy Mime?....Who is creating the mistrust?....THEY ARE....in their own bent minds, they know they do wrong...but fear being exposed!
 
 
And , they have been!
 
 
Ugly people...it is not a game!
 
Wake up!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
2017/06/28 19:50:37
reginaldStjohn
?
2017/06/28 20:48:49
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
All his post are like that ... following the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

Can't be bothered to read that anymore

.
2017/06/28 21:57:50
arachnaut
I think he means every time we change something Microsoft comes up with an update and it overwrites our choices.
I find things like Program Defaults should never be altered on updates.
 
It's an interesting philosophical point - Microsoft owns the software, but we own our personal settings. They are very careful to protect their intellectual property but nonchalant about our choices and settings.
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