• SONAR
  • Cakewalk Announcement (p.113)
2017/12/13 19:04:57
Mad_Musicologist
Geoff Cattle
(...)
Question: What about the plugins and VST instruments being used with other DAW's? Are they still going to be 'tied' to the Cakewalk licence? I want to keep AD Drums at least for use on other systems, but I'm not sure if XLN allow that, as it was purchased with Sonar X3 as part of a bundle. Anyone know how this stands? Cheers in advance.

Third party plugins: Why not trying to upgrading them to a more recent level, then you own them directly from the company that makes them, and you are free to try them out in any other host DAW.
As for me, I shall try to keep my Sonar running as long as possible, when other DAWS should be more actual than CW is now (might take some time ;-)) it is time to change. In the mean time I try to find another DAW which fits to the rest of my music software (for instance, "Sibelius" for my classic stuff - ProTools looks handy in that aspet, but they only manage .aax-plugins), next time I shall purchase third party plugins that come as a part of a bundle early enough from the original makers to remain a bit more independent.
But as I said, my Sonar will remain rnning as long as possible.
And again: I feel very sorry for all the excellent "bakers" and I imagine it is quite hard for them to find another place and get into other stuff than the one they knew about so perfectly.
Thank you for the software.
2017/12/14 02:35:50
msmcleod
Geoff Cattle
(...)
Question: What about the plugins and VST instruments being used with other DAW's? Are they still going to be 'tied' to the Cakewalk licence? I want to keep AD Drums at least for use on other systems, but I'm not sure if XLN allow that, as it was purchased with Sonar X3 as part of a bundle. Anyone know how this stands? Cheers in advance.

 
AD Drums will work fine outside of Sonar, as will melodyne as they're both full licenses.
 
Overloud are doing something about TH3 for cakewalk users, although personally I took the upgrade to the full version.
 
Basically everything that is not under the Sonar product tree within Command Center will be fine outside of Sonar.
 
Things that are bundled with the Sonar install itself (i.e. you didn't have to install it separately), you'll have to go through and try out.
 
2017/12/14 03:36:36
robotecho
I was all upset about this, but I have ongoing projects so I checked out other DAWS and moved over to Studio One.
 
Holy crap! Seriously discontinuing Sonar is the biggest favour they could have done for me.
 
Studio One hasn't crashed, it does everything Sonar does but with a simpler, cleaner layout, along with a bunch of really innovative features.
 
Did I mention it hasn't crashed yet? Because it hasn't crashed.
 
A big thankyou to Gibson for just shooting Sonar in the head.
2017/12/14 06:44:12
CoteRotie
anydmusic
 
 
In spite of the doom and gloom about this I think the consensus is that Sonar will work for a long time if that's your preferred option and those who are switching are doing so for one of two reasons.
  1. They run studios to generate an income so need the extra security that software support brings. Imagine saying to a paying customer "we'll be recording today with Sonar, you might have read about Gibson pilling the plug on it".
  2. Making a change makes sense because its either the right time or they had been secretly considering it for a while and the Gibson announcement gave them a good excuse. (OK the second one may be a bit harsh because no one here suffers from GAS)
I'm also still using Sonar and have no plans to uninstall it.


I think another reason is that you can't guarantee that the authentication servers will stay up.  Even though they said that there would be some method to use the software once the servers go down, it's not inconceivable that Gibson could jettison the folks who could make that happen before it actually happens.  It's not likely, but not inconceivable that a Windows update could cause issues as well.  It's not inconceivable that Gibson could file bankruptcy within the next year.
 
So SONAR could possibly break at some point.  Probably not, but it's possible.
 
Also at some point SONAR will become dated and maybe not compatible with new standards, drivers, and hardware. 
If you are going to invest  hundreds or thousands of hours recording, you might want to play the odds and do it in a DAW that has a higher chance of long-term survival and improvement.
2017/12/14 08:04:27
JClosed
Well - It's not that Sonar will break down in the short therm. Hell - I am even still have installed Project 5 on my Windows 10 system (yes I play around with it from time to time). If you are happy with Sonar in it's present state, by all means keep using it.
 
But that's just the point for me. I switched to Cubase, just because that program handles MIDI far more comfortable for me than Sonar. I kept Sonar installed, because of two reasons. The first reason is that I need Sonar because I have a lot of projects in that program, and want to be able to edit them and ultimately transport them over to Cubase. And secondly - I was hoping Sonar would improve in the MIDI department to "catch up" with Cubase, keeping the possibility open that Sonar would be again a valuable workstation to use beside other DAW's
 
And it's that last thing that makes Sonar for me no longer a main application. Sonar's features are forever frozen now, and MIDI will never get those improvements a was hoping for. The program is now effectively abandon-ware.  So - I am now in the process of transferring the last projects to Cubase, and still need Sonar to do that. But after that I do not longer have a reason to keep Sonar installed. Strange enough I am certain I will keep Project 5 installed until it does not longer work. Even at it's old age and ancient interface it has a functionality that even Cubase 9.5 is missing. Oh - and of course Rapture, Dimension Pro and Z3TA 2 are still valuable soft-synths (never gone for the newer Rapture).
2017/12/14 10:14:15
anydmusic
CoteRotie
anydmusic
 
 
In spite of the doom and gloom about this I think the consensus is that Sonar will work for a long time if that's your preferred option and those who are switching are doing so for one of two reasons.
  1. They run studios to generate an income so need the extra security that software support brings. Imagine saying to a paying customer "we'll be recording today with Sonar, you might have read about Gibson pilling the plug on it".
  2. Making a change makes sense because its either the right time or they had been secretly considering it for a while and the Gibson announcement gave them a good excuse. (OK the second one may be a bit harsh because no one here suffers from GAS)
I'm also still using Sonar and have no plans to uninstall it.


I think another reason is that you can't guarantee that the authentication servers will stay up.  Even though they said that there would be some method to use the software once the servers go down, it's not inconceivable that Gibson could jettison the folks who could make that happen before it actually happens.  It's not likely, but not inconceivable that a Windows update could cause issues as well.  It's not inconceivable that Gibson could file bankruptcy within the next year.
 
So SONAR could possibly break at some point.  Probably not, but it's possible.
 
Also at some point SONAR will become dated and maybe not compatible with new standards, drivers, and hardware. 
If you are going to invest  hundreds or thousands of hours recording, you might want to play the odds and do it in a DAW that has a higher chance of long-term survival and improvement.




Good point about the authentication servers, the risk here being that the plug gets TOTALLY pulled at really short notice and no alternative is made available. 
 
My guess is that keeping the servers running will help Gibson if they try to monetise the Cakewalk assets as the activity on them is evidence that might support the viability of Sonar Phoenix to a prospective buyer.
 
2017/12/14 11:11:04
.
anydmusic
 
My guess is that keeping the servers running will help Gibson if they try to monetise the Cakewalk assets as the activity on them is evidence that might support the viability of Sonar Phoenix to a prospective buyer.
 



SONAR wasn't viable for Roland, it wasn't viable for Gibson, how many more examples are needed before someone says, "hey, there's something not quite right here" instead of blaming everyone and everything else except Cakewalk. People on these forums have been making excuses for Cakewalk for years, and that's part of the problem.
 
The buck has to stop with Cakewalk, lay the blame where it should be, they failed to develop a product that people in the outside world (outside this little bubble) thought was good enough compared to the available alternatives, they failed to develop a product that wowed those in the outside world, there wasn't a huge stampede of new users knocking down the doors hungering to use SONAR. Cakewalk and SONAR have a massive reputation problem, and have had for years, take a walk outside the comfort of these insular forum walls if you want to see what people think of Cakewalk/SONAR, you are not going to like what you see and hear, that's just how it is.
 
When the topic is DAW's, SONAR is pretty much always left out of the conversation, most times it doesn't even get a mention, why is that? 3rd party devs often leave SONAR out of the 'tested with' lists and don't test on SONAR (yes there are those that do, but if you are to be honest . . . ) why is that? Users on these forums frequently post things like they don't actually know anyone else that uses SONAR (in real life). When they say to people that they use SONAR, the other person either gives them a weird look, or hasn't got a clue what SONAR is. Users have frequently over the years posted things like "I'm tired of having to make excuses for using SONAR" or "Why isn't SONAR considered as a professional product"or "why isn't SONAR listed in Compatability lists" and on and on it goes. Why is that? If SONAR really was as good as people here seem to think it is, it would be taking over the world, be on everyone's tongue, be making that much money no one in their right mind would want to get rid of Cakewalk. Unfortunately for Cakewalk and it's users, the majority of people in the outside world do not agree with the insiders opinion, most seem to have a low opinion of Cakewalk and SONAR, again that's just how it is.
 
Roland buys Cakewalk, Cakewalk loses money, is not viable, Roland ditches Cakewalk,
Gibson buys Cakewalk, Cakewalk loses money, is not viable,  Gibson ditches Cakewalk,
can you see a pattern emerging? can you see a common denominator? Instead of blaming everyone and everything else, lay the blame where it is desereved, lay it at Cakewalks feet, it's time to let go of the delusion that Cakewalk can do no wrong, the buck should and must stop at Cakewalk. You can continue blaming Gibson if that makes you feel better, or the phase of the moon, or global warming, or the fact that every day's name ends with a 'y', or whatever you like, but like Mr Anderton said, Gibson didn't kill Cakewalk/SONAR, they just buried it. Also as Mr Anderton pointed out, Gibson probably extended Cakewalks life by a few years. I think the fact is Cakewalk/SONAR have been terminally ill for some time for many various reasons, and the blame must be laid squarely at Cakewalks feet, they failed in creating a product that captured enough peoples minds to make it viable. In the end, they could not compete with the opposition regardless of how good insiders think SONAR is, the majority of those outside disagreed, and disagreed strongly.
 
 
2017/12/14 11:27:50
anydmusic
Matron Landslide
anydmusic
 
My guess is that keeping the servers running will help Gibson if they try to monetise the Cakewalk assets as the activity on them is evidence that might support the viability of Sonar Phoenix to a prospective buyer.
 

 
Roland buys Cakewalk, Cakewalk loses money, is not viable, Roland ditches Cakewalk,
Gibson buys Cakewalk, Cakewalk loses money, is not viable,  Gibson ditches Cakewalk,
can you see a pattern emerging? can you see a common denominator? 



In terms of the likelihood of Cakewalk reemerging "as is" I would agree that the underlying problems make this unlikely. However, I would expect Gibson to find some way of recouping something from this even if it is simply spinning off the VSTs. Preserving the connection with users through the Command Centre would potentially help convince a potential buyer to become an actual buyer. 
 
Of course the challenge here would be identifying VSTs that are unique enough to compete in an over subscribed market ZETA2 might make it, not sure about Rapture Pro, some of the effects could make a useful package, CA2A probably just another player, Pro Channel as a standalone Console Channel VST might work especially if they could keep the 3rd party addins. 
 
So while Sonar will probably not reemerge I think a creative team of developers could create an interesting set of plugins from the content they have and on that basis someone might be prepared to give Gibson some cash.
2017/12/14 12:22:17
burgerproduction
People keep talking about 'shutting down the servers' and Sonar not working as a result. 
How could the server affect Sonar if it is installed on your machine?
I'm just asking because I have SPLAT installed on a W10 machine alongside Sonar 8, 6, & Project 5, and I don't see how Sonar can stop working if the servers go down. It doesn't need to be connected to the internet to load up.
Is this only an issue for people using Steam?
2017/12/14 12:47:42
anydmusic
My understanding is that Sonar Platinum verifies registration with the online servers. Older products should be ok.
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