Just to be clear about what I said regarding a discernable latency. I only hear this when using a plugin amp simulator or whenever I played with an electric drumset using a drum synth. When playing with external sources, latencies lower than ~5 ms are not an issue for me either (i.e. my amp recording direct or mic'ed into Sonar, which would be similar to using a guitar processor). Just wanted to clear those things out .

ORIGINAL: hockeyjx

I still stand by my earlier comments that only the most trained audiophiles MAY be able to detect a higher-end amp sim, but 99% of people could not correctly identify when an amp sim is being used on a song that is fully mixed. That is my theory!

The key here, I believe, is "on a song that is fully mixed". And that is how all of my recording will end up being heard. I don't do any music that is solo guitar and nothing else. In the final mix, I believe amp simps could fool anyone.

Someone had pointed out that the shimmer, excitement, and lack of quick transients were missing. I just can't see any of this being heard in a final mix....

BUT, I must play both sides of the debate here and reiterate that I there is something to be said for inspiration and standing in front of a cranked amp and feeling it. But I believe I can get past that and learn to play with an amp sim. I will do that because it's what I want to do - it fits my needs. Not because it has been declared the best or proper way to record! If you prefer using an amp, ROCK ON!!!!!! I love my DG100 for live use in my band and the shimmer, excitement and quick transients it provides to stimulate my inner-being! And no, it's not a point-to-point hand wired class A tube amp.... it's better!!! ha ha ha ha That's a debate for another day!

If everything was made out of tubes then we would have lot's of distortion introduced to our music. Thats the reason solid state came about.

I think both of these statements are untrue.

For example, what do you think of when you think of a clean guitar sound? A Fender Twin, maybe? Clean until the house starts to shake.

While it's true that on paper tube amps introduce more harmonic distortion that SS amps, there are lots of audiophile grade tube amps that meet ANYONE's definition of truly clean.

Solid state amps were developed more for solutions to heat and maintenance ($$) issues.

In the final mix, I believe amp simps could fool anyone.

About five years ago, while I was still in the I HATE POD camp, I was aksed by my engineer buddy what the guitar sound was in a tune he sent to me. I guessed blackface Deluxe. It was a POD. I know I don't have the best ears, but dang, was that a wakeup call.

It took me another couple of years (and 5 PODS!) for me to make peace with the little box, but I did and my workflow and sound is better for it.

Since I have a lot of the actual amps it models, sometimes I'll use the POD to audition amps sounds for a song, like Recto or cranked Marshall? Vox or Fender? So useful in so many ways. I even get keeper tracks out of it.

stratton,

I think you have missread my post. I was talking about, if ALL gear were tube based, not just guitar amps. Certainly, some intruments benefit from the use of harmonic distortion and some don't. Same as with music, some styles benefit from that distortion while others don't. Back in the analog tape days, recordings made with tube mics, preamps, consoles, etc, all going to tape would introduce a considerable amount of distortion and the resulting sound would be dramatically different. This is the real reason why solid state equipment came about, because we wanted to achieve a cleaner, truer sound to our recordings.

The distortion introduced by the analog tape is the reason why we went to digital tape, sames as with analog consoles to digital consoles, etc, etc. The problem is that, like I said before, these new technologies took the warmth out of the recordings since we were missing the character of the distorted sound and so the recording engineers brought it back with the use of analog tube gear (compressors, preamps, mics, etc).

http://www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1604
I have one of these and a slew of amps. If I am trying to get something to tape quickly, the Groove Tubes box gets a hellagood sound quickly. It is also nice when combined with an SM57 mic on the speakers.

I have tried Pod, the amp sims in software (amplitube, guitar rig...) and have always gone back to this setup.

THe GT is expensive ($999). However, I have tried numerous reactive loads and none of them came close to the GT.

One other thing, I have found latency to be problematic with things like Guitar Rig. As such, I like to direct monitor when I play. I am not a purist - I will print distortion or effects if the sound is right on the guitar. I like to hear what I am playing when I am playing it.

A good compressor plug and a bit of EQ, plus some reverb possibly can open up the sound better to fit the mix, but I like the sound to be rigt at the outset.

ORIGINAL: DigiDis

My point is, why do we have to accept that defacto standard? Is the tube mindset actually a limitation? Why don't vocalists amplify their voices with tube based rigs (TBR)? Why do most bassists seem to prefer solid state rigs to TBRs? Why aren't PA systems tube based? Keyboardists don't rely on tubes.

DigiDis,

Vocalists do amplify their voices with tubes, only this is done in the preamp stage or in the microphone itself for a hot line level signal to the input stage. Bassists know that the Ampeg SVT series is the de facto standard for bass amplification. It just doesn’t get any better than that. My Marshall has doubled as a keyboard amp many times. It performs equally well for both guitar and keyboards, and anyone with a B-3 uses tubes. The cost of replacement tubes alone makes them a poor choice for PA amps.

I think you have missread my post. I was talking about, if ALL gear were tube based, not just guitar amps.

Hello Jose, I understood your post. I just disagree with it.

Specifically, that solid state was developed because of a need for cleaner, truer audio, and for that matter, that it sounds cleaner and truer because it's solid state.

The cost of replacement tubes alone makes them a poor choice for PA amps.

Yeah, and what would a 1000W per side tube amp weigh? How much heat would all those glowing gas bottles put out?