making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips

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joenj07087
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2009/11/21 10:34:13 (permalink)

making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips

I give  up, no matter what I do, I can't get clips that I have recorded into other programs like MElodyne Studio to sync in Sonar to other clips after I enable "Groove-Clip looping" in Sonar for the clip, they go out of wack and do not sync to other clips that are also "groove clip" enable in the Sonar project.
 
I notice that sonar does not detect the tempo from the clip correctly when I check it in the "loop construction" window. I have saved clips in Melodyne Studio at "140bpm"after I have done the proper time streching and when I load the clip in Sonar and check  the Sonar "loop construction" window it says Orig.BPMs" 89.00",  this is far off, and may be my problem? I don't know.
 
My question to you guys here that make loops for comercial or other uses is>>>what program do you guys use? so that the loops can be use in any situations? like for example being able to enable them with "groove clip looping" in Sonar and be in sync with other clips in a project???????I'm more or less new to all of this, and I'm not understanding what I been reading about time streching, so far going by what i have read, what I'm doing should work, but it does not, I don't expect and explanation of the process, just a suggestion of a software program that may facilitate making loops that will work or be in sync in projects in other programs....even after enabling "Groove clip looping" in Sonar perhaps!
 
P.S: I have notice that Loops I have purchased commercially do have this atribute, that they are groove enabled and sync to any project's tempo...and change in sync with project tempo changes without a hitch..that is what I want to be able to do with my own "loops"..I like using my own loops or rather prefer using my own loops in projects! whetherr they are drum loops or synth loops or guitars. But I need help! I will most certainly appreciate any suggestions ! thank you!
post edited by joenj07087 - 2009/11/21 10:36:43

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    John
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 10:57:27 (permalink)
    Creating and Editing Groove Clips
    Any audio clip can be converted to a Groove clip. Groove clips contain tempo, beat, and pitch information which SONAR uses to stretch and transpose the clips to match the project. Most Groove clips are loop-enabled, meaning that you can use the mouse to drag clip repetitions in the Track view. Groove clips can be either loop-enabled or not, although they usually are. When a Groove clip is loop-enabled, its edges appear beveled. It is sometimes desirable to create clips that follow the project’s tempo and key, but are not intended to loop. The following is a list of the attributes contained in a Groove clip:

    Beats in clip. The number of quarter notes in a clip. A four measure clip in 4/4 time should have 16 beats. When you enable looping for a clip, SONAR calculates the number of beats in the clip using an algorithm. This calculation is very often accurate, but in some cases, for instance when the clip has a very slow or very fast tempo or if the clip has an unusual number of beats, then the number of beats in a clip may have to be edited manually in the Beats in clip field.


    Original tempo. The original tempo of the recording. SONAR uses the original tempo to adjust to your project’s tempo. The original tempo must be specified for stretching clips.


     
    Note: When you loop-enable a clip, SONAR calculates the original tempo of the clip, and unless the clip’s length is in exact beat or measure increments, the original tempo that SONAR calculates may vary from the recorded tempo. These fluctuations are usually quite small and do not affect the quality of the Groove clip you create.

    Reference note. The original key of the recorded clip. SONAR uses the Reference note when it transposes Groove clips to match your project’s pitch.

    These attributes can be edited in the Loop Construction view. For more information about the Loop Construction view, see Loop Construction view.


    To Set the Number of Beats in a Groove Clip
    When you open a clip in the Loop Construction view, SONAR determines the number of beats in the clip. In some cases the beat value may not be correct. The beats in clip value can only be changed if the clip is loop enabled.
    Do the following to change value in the Beats in clip field.

    Click the Plus or Minus button to the right of the Beats in clip field until the correct value is displayed.

    To Change the Loop Construction View Time Ruler Display
    You can display the Loop Construction view Time Ruler in measures or in samples. To toggle between the two modes, double click the Time Ruler.
    To Set the Tempo of a Groove Clip
    When creating a new Groove clip, SONAR sets the clip’s tempo to the current project tempo. To ensure proper stretching behavior you must set the value in the Original BPM field to the tempo at which you recorded the clip. The tempo value of a clip can only be changed if the clip is stretch-enabled.
    Do the following to change the value in the Original BPM field.

    Click the Plus or Minus button to the right of the Original BPM field until the correct value is displayed. For more precise tempos you can double-click in the Original BPM field and enter a tempo.

    To Slice a Groove Clip
    1.
    Double-click on a clip in the Clips pane.

    The clip appears in the Loop Construction view.
    2.
    Slice the clip using one or all of the following methods:

    Table 77.  
    To do this
    Do this
    Slice the clip on note divisions
    Move the Basic Slicing slider to the note resolution you want. The Basic Slicing slider’s settings range from whole notes to 64th notes. Selecting quarter notes, for example, would create four markers per measure.
    Slice the clip at transient peaks
    Enter a value into the Transient Detection (Trans Detect %) text field or use the increment/decrement buttons. The larger transients in the clip will be flanked by markers.
    Slice the clip manually
    Move your mouse to the space above the Time Ruler and double-click to add a marker. Click and drag the marker, if necessary, so it aligns with the beginning or end of a transient.
    3.
    Play your project and adjust the slicing of your clip as necessary.


     
    Note: You can use any or all of these methods to slice a clip. If you adjust both the Slices and Trans Detect menus, two markers may be placed right next to each other. If these markers are too close, the markers will automatically merge. Manual markers will not automatically merge.
    To Transpose a Groove Clip to Match Your Project’s Pitch
    Follow this procedure to force the Groove clip to follow the project’s default pitch.
    1.
    Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project’s pitch.

    The clip appears in the Loop Construction view.
    2.
    Click the Follow Project Pitch button.

    To Transpose a Groove Clip by Semitones
    Follow this procedure to transpose a Groove clip by any number of semitones.
    1.
    Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project’s pitch.

    The clip appears in the Loop Construction view.
    2.
    If the Follow Project Pitch button is enabled, click it to disable it.

    3.
    In the Pitch (semitones) field, enter the number of semitones you want to transpose the clip by. A negative number in the Pitch (semitones) field transposes a clip down. A positive number in the Pitch (semitones) field transposes the clip up.

    To “Fine Tune” a Groove Clip
    Follow this procedure to make slight pitch changes to a clip.
    1.
    Double-click the clip you want to transpose to the project’s pitch.

    The clip appears in the Loop Construction view.
    2.
    In the Fine Pitch (cents) field, enter the number of cents you want to adjust the pitch. You can enter a number from -50 (transpose the pitch down by a quarter tone) to 50 (transpose the pitch up by a quarter tone).

    To Edit the Slicing Markers in a Groove Clip
    The table below describes how to create and edit the slicing markers in the Loop Construction view.


    post edited by John - 2009/11/21 11:03:02

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    John
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    bvideo
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 11:43:19 (permalink)
    Jose,
     The only thing you would have to do to make your own drum clips properly loopable would be to set the "number of beats". That can be entered in the clip properties dialog under the loop tab. The original BPM need not be entered, as it is derived from the "number of beats" and the length of the clip, which in turn is derived from the number of samples and the sample rate.

     If the loops also need to be "pitched", you would also have to enter the original key, i.e. the key that you would hear by playing the clip at its original sample rate, and then set the key in Sonar.

    Bill B.
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    ChristopherM
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 11:59:11 (permalink)
    I sometimes find it necessary to trim either the beginning or end (or both) of a clip before enabling groove clip looping, to remove "white space" or to have just enough "white space" so that Sonar's beat detection algorithm correctly gets the number of beats.
    #4
    John
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 12:00:44 (permalink)
    Who is Jose?

    Best
    John
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    ChristopherM
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 12:05:56 (permalink)
    Search me, guv - I don't even know the way to his San.
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    bvideo
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 17:41:01 (permalink)
    John Worsham,
      I took the OP's name from his public profile.
       Bill B
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    joenj07087
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    Re:making clips imported into Sonar into "Groove- clip looping" clips 2009/11/21 17:42:25 (permalink)
    thank you guys, for all the valuable info, I will work with the number of beats, that may be my whole problem, what I'm missing in this puzzle, I call it a puzzle cos some loops I have made have been perfect(and after enabling groove looping on them they don't change from the tempo I recorded them at), I think bvideo may be on the money, is a # of beats in the loop issue, thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it!

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