wrench45us
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maybe it's finally time to upgrade to Sonar 5
some of the 5.2 release featurs will include midi output from vsti support i think and hope this means the midi from one synth can be applied to another this was never possible before with their implementation of the Dxi specifiaction what it means is a drum pattern machine like microTonic that outputs its midi can be used to drive another drum machine if one prefers to enhance or replace the original sounds and stacking of synths and that sort of thing ALSO for all those unhappy Reason users 4096 channels support for Rewire (proviously 16) for $99, I can upgrade from Sonar 3 Producer to Sonar 5 Studio (as I can't imagine using all the gadgets included in Producer) (and have a birthday coming up) and as I keep looking in music books, I'm beginning to want to see a simple staff notation to 'see' what I'm doing of course, these are all nice features that will eventually migrate to P5 with sufficient patience
post edited by wrench45us - 2006/03/29 15:29:23
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jmeier
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:18:32
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ah HA! yes, sonar 5 rules. i love it to little pieces. the staff notation is certainly great to use. and there's even more cool options with midi output from vsti if you're right about that, because there are some vsti's that turn live audio into midi, which is going to be incredible. edit: i wouldn't wait for things to move automatically into p5 from sonar, because the underlying engines are totally different (from what they've said), so i think transferring features is not as easy as people sometimes think. double edit: could cakewalk buy native instruments now and release timely, user responsive updates for absynth and kontakt?
post edited by jmeier - 2006/03/29 11:32:37
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b rock
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:29:47
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the midi from one synth can be applied to another  It also means that you could utilize all of those FX plugins that require a MIDI Note input. You just HAD to report this, didn't you, Jan ... [ ... carry the two, plus 6, as compared to ...]
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three_eyed_otter
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:36:38
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could cakewalk buy native instruments now and release timely, user responsive updates for absynth and kontakt? That's a pipedream. When Battery was a new boy on the block we had to kick and scream just to be able to see Dr.008 in front of us. I used to have to use the VSTi wrapped just to get multiple outs, which was an update to Battery 1. My experience w/NI products has been you'll get a new version before you get a fix for the current version. OK, Now back to the MIDI out thing. MIDI out is MIDI out right? My question is how is this implemented i.e., can you record your MIDI out data in real-time, bounce it to a track, will automation be included or an option for it to be excluded? have a good one 3Eo
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jmeier
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:39:47
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ORIGINAL: b rock
It also means that you could utilize all of those FX plugins that require a MIDI Note input.
you know, this has been possible in sonar for quite some time. you can actually use absynth as an effect by inserting it as an effect and then assigning a midi track to the synth in sonar and holding down a note. if there's no note on message, absynth can't be used as an effect. come to think of it, i never tried this in p5. it's really not possible to do this? i didn't know that. well, there's another reason to get sonar.
post edited by jmeier - 2006/03/29 11:47:13
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DayDrumFour
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:44:58
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I've been looking at the Sonar5 demo a lot now. Everything on my P5v3 wishlist is already there. I never had a previous Sonar so there's a learning curve (thinking of ProAudio though). Some things got me hooked right away....
See whatever you want in the track clips.
A full mixing board with .bmp labels on the tracks.
Upgraded midi quantization/timing fx.
I guess that's what the demo version is for, people like me on the fence about this.
thinking.....
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b rock
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 11:51:18
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this has been possible in sonar for quite some time First that I'd heard, JM. I don't have Absynth, and I had something along the lines of the TobyBear stuff in mind. VST MIDI. I have nothing either way to back up the speculation. I tried it in Sonar 3, and I don't believe that I ever tried it in Sonar 4. I'd be interested in the outcome, though.
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wrench45us
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 12:03:30
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come to think of it, i never tried this in p5. it's really not possible to do this? i didn't know that. well, there's another reason to get sonar. I'm getting a little confused, but my understanding was the DXi spec doesn't support this sort of thing, but it looks like Sonar with their new model for wrapping vsti are expanding onm their original methods And I do know that I spent about a week with P5 wondering what I was doing wrong when I heard that microTonic output its midi and could be used to drive other synths. Then I tried it in energyXT as a standalone host and as modular as that is with its explicit connections of midi in/out audio in/out that worked fine. An dI think I got it to work in FLStudio as well. I think I've used a specific Absynth fx plug in P5 -- not the synth but a separate fx dll (i think) and NI is coming out with another version of Kontakt 2 but as 3 eyed otter said this is in conjunction with an update of its engine for all those 3rd party sample sets. The language is of course ambiguous but it also says something about Akoustik Piano import -- I expect you have to own that to import it, but I can dream that they'd just throw that with the update. oh and the Dim Pro upgrade version was announced as well
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jamester
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 12:03:45
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I love Sonar 5! 
Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry Edirol UA-1000, Korg PadKontrol, Dynaudio BM 5A's Reaper, Live, Sound Forge, Pyro
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hypolydien
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 12:46:53
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original:wrench
and as I keep looking in music books, I'm beginning to want to see a simple staff notation to 'see' what I'm doing
wrench, at the rate you are learning, I predict you will be scoring orchestral work in Finale within 1.5 years. 
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xylyx
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 13:02:23
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ORIGINAL: jmeier
double edit: could cakewalk buy native instruments now and release timely, user responsive updates for absynth and kontakt?
Well, there is finally an update for K2 on the way...some good stuff in there (lower RAM and cpu usage) and if they have removed some of the other bugs and not introduced more, then I think it is looking good...
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woodamand
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 13:35:33
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ORIGINAL: jmeier
ORIGINAL: b rock
It also means that you could utilize all of those FX plugins that require a MIDI Note input.
you know, this has been possible in sonar for quite some time. you can actually use absynth as an effect by inserting it as an effect and then assigning a midi track to the synth in sonar and holding down a note. if there's no note on message, absynth can't be used as an effect.
come to think of it, i never tried this in p5. it's really not possible to do this? i didn't know that. well, there's another reason to get sonar.
but that is so much not the same as using a sequenced synth from Reaktor, where in order to use the sequences generated by Reaktor you have to lay down a single note that would trigger that seq. Sure you got audio that way but not what I want, which is the actual notes recorded to midi notes that I can then mess with. Maybe it will finally be time to upgrade.... And an upgrade to Kontakt 2, finally? Yeehaa!!!!!
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jmeier
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 13:46:46
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ORIGINAL: woodamand
but that is so much not the same as using a sequenced synth from Reaktor, where in order to use the sequences generated by Reaktor you have to lay down a single note that would trigger that seq. Sure you got audio that way but not what I want, which is the actual notes recorded to midi notes that I can then mess with. Maybe it will finally be time to upgrade....
And an upgrade to Kontakt 2, finally?
Yeehaa!!!!!
technically, this is possible, i know, because i did it by accident once in sonar 3. i can't remember how i did it, but i wrote midi out of marcel and le truc (which is an incredible reaktor sequenced synth) and then used some of the midi for a piano part and the rest of the midi for a drum part. in other words, i think it might be possible in reaktor going way back if you just wire an ensemble correctly, or incorrectly, as the case may be. if you're really curious i could mess around with this tonight, because i think i also would like to know how to do this for sure, but it's one of those things i haven't gotten around to doing lately because i'm all wrapped up in learning how to use that incredible banded waveform synthesizer that gabriel mulzer just uploaded a few days ago to the reaktor user library--it's the best physical modeling for bar percussion instruments i've ever heard.
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jmeier
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 13:48:08
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ORIGINAL: xylyx
ORIGINAL: jmeier
double edit: could cakewalk buy native instruments now and release timely, user responsive updates for absynth and kontakt?
Well, there is finally an update for K2 on the way...some good stuff in there (lower RAM and cpu usage) and if they have removed some of the other bugs and not introduced more, then I think it is looking good...
we've been hearing that for a while. i love absynth and reaktor to pieces, but ni is really dropping the ball with customer service. there's a stuck notes issue with absynth that's gone unrepaired for months. i want so badly for them to get their act together, but i'm skeptical right now.
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woodamand
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 13:49:00
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ORIGINAL: jmeier
ORIGINAL: woodamand
but that is so much not the same as using a sequenced synth from Reaktor, where in order to use the sequences generated by Reaktor you have to lay down a single note that would trigger that seq. Sure you got audio that way but not what I want, which is the actual notes recorded to midi notes that I can then mess with. Maybe it will finally be time to upgrade....
And an upgrade to Kontakt 2, finally?
Yeehaa!!!!!
technically, this is possible, i know, because i did it by accident once in sonar 3. i can't remember how i did it, but i wrote midi out of marcel and le truc (which is an incredible reaktor sequenced synth) and then used some of the midi for a piano part and the rest of the midi for a drum part.
in other words, i think it might be possible in reaktor going way back if you just wire an ensemble correctly, or incorrectly, as the case may be.
if you're really curious i could mess around with this tonight, because i think i also would like to know how to do this for sure, but it's one of those things i haven't gotten around to doing lately because i'm all wrapped up in learning how to use that incredible banded waveform synthesizer that gabriel mulzer just uploaded a few days ago to the reaktor user library--it's the best physical modeling for bar percussion instruments i've ever heard.
huh! I have tried and tried for so long...........but don't worry about it, I have been doing the workaround for the moment, and hopefully the Sonar update, if it works, will fix it permanently. Now, of course, I have to go grab that synth! thanks much!
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SuperGreenX
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 14:13:05
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ORIGINAL: wrench45us
ALSO for all those unhappy Reason users 4096 channels support for Rewire (proviously 16)
WOWOWOWOWOWOW Finally. I MIIIGHT look into Sonar again. Is there an upgrade deal from Sonar3 PE to Sonar5 PE? I hope that rewire 'feature' (more like 'non-limitation') makes it into P5 3.
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wrench45us
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 15:28:08
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SGreenX
every Sonar back to 1 has some sort of upgrade path
3PE to 5PE is $179
3PE to 5SE is $99 -- unless someone can shoe me why I need vocal whatever and Pentagon and surround and video, I'm probably going to go for the Studio Edition - there's undoubtedly an upgrade from there if it proves necessary
my experience with 2PE and P5 1.5 and Rewire leaves me with doubts if this really is a good idea
my laptop is pushed pretty hard with 5 - 8 tracks of effect ridden tracks
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xylyx
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 15:31:37
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ORIGINAL: jmeier
ORIGINAL: xylyx
ORIGINAL: jmeier
double edit: could cakewalk buy native instruments now and release timely, user responsive updates for absynth and kontakt?
Well, there is finally an update for K2 on the way...some good stuff in there (lower RAM and cpu usage) and if they have removed some of the other bugs and not introduced more, then I think it is looking good...
we've been hearing that for a while. i love absynth and reaktor to pieces, but ni is really dropping the ball with customer service. there's a stuck notes issue with absynth that's gone unrepaired for months. i want so badly for them to get their act together, but i'm skeptical right now.
The update has been announced at the Musikmesse... and on their website (clicky!). The only scepticism I have is whether there will be new bugs introduced...it's been in the slow cooker long enough that they should have got it right. As for Absynth, well I think they're a little Kore obsessed right now to focus on something like that...
post edited by xylyx - 2006/03/29 15:40:01
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wrench45us
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/29 19:21:32
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Sonar 5 Studio edition is a done deal
I may regret getting the cheaper Studio version eventually
as the upgrade from 5 Studio to 5 Producer is more than the upgrade from 3 PE to 5 PE
but another package to look for in the mail
didn't get any e-mail from my good friends in Berlin
what's up with that
anybody goes to that Sunset Blvd Dim Pro and Rapture dog and pony show
stop by the NI center on Sunset and see what's up
I see they're hiring
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woodamand
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RE: maybe it's finallty time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/31 19:00:06
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oh, I went and bit the bullet from Studio 4 to Producer 5 - just too many good things in there, and I guess I haven't spent enough money recently. Especially since Sonar tech support told me that yes, I will be able to use the output from my Reaktor sequencers to dump midi.
Man, I can't wait.
Now watch, now that I have spent all my case, in 2 days or less a P5 update will be announced - that would just kill me now!
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kb420
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RE: maybe it's finally time to upgrade to Sonar 5
2006/03/31 19:25:02
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Sonar 5 is awesome. I can't believe how good it sounds. Some say that there can't be an audible difference in the sound, but I can hear a difference. http://www.cakewalk.com/Events/AES_2005/Ron_Video_2.wmv http://www.cakewalk.com/x64/default.asp My mixes sound a lot better now. I don't know if it's all the reading I am doing (Bob Katz- Mastering Audio: the art and the science), or Sonar's 64 bit engine. I think it's the engine. Whatever the case may be, I don't think you will regret buying Sonar 5. It truly has everything that P5 may be missing. Check out this mix. It's René's Rapture demo and some sounds I added from the Motif Es. I made his mp3 demo into Sonar groove clips, recorded the Mo at 24 bits, mixed it all and saved it as a 24 bit .wav file, mastered (attempted mastering anyway) and dithered it in Sound Forge 8. http://forums.keyfax.com/user-files/247470-Kev%20and%20Ren%E9%20%20mp3.mp3
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