M_Glenn_M
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midi track madness
Somehow I have the tracks set up wrong.
I have a bass track and a drum track, both midi
They have the little dashes in the track display and the round midi plug icon in the inspector.
I also have a track with the little keyboard icon that combines the two to a single wave form when I freeze either the drum or the bass track.
How do I separate these into their own track waveforms?
More confusingly, I have another midi drum track (Little keyboard icon, but dashes in the display) that simply converts to a wave form when frozen.
I seem to be confused about the two types of icons.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/18 02:21:50
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I think from your description you are describing regular MIDI tracks (Bass and drums) and they are both pointed to the same instrument track (soft synth output) using the same output hence the output is combined.
Either use another output from the synth (if it has multiple outs) or use another instance of it with its own instrument track. Which synth is it? TTS-1 has up to four outputs but others may only have one. To insert another output insert an audio track and then set that track's input to one of the synth's output from the track input menu. If there isn't another synth output to assign it to its probably a single output synth or needs to be configured.
The other MIDI drum track that converts to it's own waveform sounds like it might be a Simple Instrument Track (SIT) which is the MIDI track and output combined into one. To separate those right click on the track header and select "Split Instrument Track" you'll then end up with the MIDI track and the synth's associated instrument track. They can be "rejoined" by selecting them both and then selecting "Make Instrument Track" from the right click track header menu.
HTH
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garrigus
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/18 09:39:35
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Hi Glenn, The easiest way to keep things "simple" (so to speak) is to use a separate synth instance for each instrument and to use Simple Instrument Tracks. So to record a MIDI track with a soft synth, do... 1. Choose Insert > Soft Synths > synth you want to use 2. Choose the Simple Instrument Track option. 3. Choose the Synth Property Page option. 4. Click OK. Do this for each MIDI synth track/instrument you want to record and you'll have one track per instrument that can be frozen independently. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/18 12:35:42
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Great. I think I got you now and will report back.
I did use TTS-1 for the two that are linked but SI Drumkit for the single track.
This seems fixable -plus a bonus midi epiphany for me.
Looking fwd to tweaking once the weekend guests leave..
Thanks for this.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 14:15:44
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FastBikerBoy
TTS-1 has up to four outputs but others may only have one. To insert another output insert an audio track and then set that track's input to one of the synth's output from the track input menu. If there isn't another synth output to assign it to its probably a single output synth or needs to be configured.
It is TTS-1 Here are my steps. I right clicked on the bass track and used "Insert Audio track" (it made "track 9") I went to the inspector and, on track 9, changed the input to TTS-1 output 2 left mono I then clicked freeze synth but both tracks were frozen again to the (track 8). The new track 9 froze too but had no wave, just a line. Track 8, the one with the combined wave, has an input to my sound card/midi omni and an output to master. It doesn't have TTS-1 as an option. So I killed that one and made another Audio track (track 10) from the drum track and set it to TTS-1 output 1 left mono That works but they are linked as before and I then clicked freeze on one (all 4 tracks are highlighted) but both tracks were blended again, now to (track 10). The track 8 froze too but had no wave, just a line. I'm missing a step. Still maddening. Do i need to make another instance of TTS1? As I understand, i shouldn't have to.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 14:33:52
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Scott's method works fine, thanks Scott. I'm still hoping to understand using one instance of the TTS1 for two separated tracks. Edit Now the bass is a stereo track and the drums are mono.. Not so simple after all. Guess I need a sonar midi for dummies.
post edited by M_Glenn_M - 2013/05/21 14:44:21
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garrigus
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 15:01:01
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Hi Glenn, If you just want to use one instance for multiple tracks, try this... 1. Choose > Insert > Soft Synth > Cakewalk TTS-1 2. In the dialog, put check marks next to the First Synth Audio Output option and the Synth Property Page option. 3. Create a new MIDI track and assign its output to the TTS-1 track you just created. It will probably be called something like Cakewalk TTS-1 1. 4. Set the MIDI channel for the track (1 through 16). 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 for each MIDI track you want to use. As for a "SONAR MIDI for dummies"... my SONAR X1 Power! and SONAR X2 Power! books are available http://www.garrigus.com/powerbooks.asp  Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 15:50:06
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Scott, wouldn't it be quicker if, after creating the FIRST Midi track and getting the assignments sorted out, he then clones the existing Midi track for as many copies as he wants, then just go into each one & do your step 4 for each 1?
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 15:52:36
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I do have your X1 book Scott. It's great .
I guess it's time to go over that part again.
As for this case.
1. I have a pre recorded midi track with drums
2. I have a pre recorded midi track with bass.
3. I installed TTS1 (thru the browser) which added a midi and audio track
I moved the midi bass track to this new midi track
I didn't do anything (other than change track 2 in tts1 to bass from piano) and it works. It seems to have done it's settings automatically.
Now..To deal with the other existing midi (drum) track.
Adding new tracks (thru the inspector, to avoid another instance of tts1) and moving the Drum midi track info into it (and setting it to stereo and the tts1 ch10), plays, and in stereo, but still leaves it connected to the original bass track.
IOW freezing the drums, freezes both the drums and bass
(I assume because it freezes the synth ) and the drum waves in the audio track are just a stereo line not waves.
Is the only way to work with these trax independently, to have two instances of TTS1?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 15:53:29
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If you want TTS-1 to output to two separate instrument tracks you'll need to............... - Insert two audio tracks
- Assign input on one to TTS-1 output 1
- Assign input of other track to TTS-1 output 2
- Assign MIDI track outputs (Drums and bass) to TTS-1 on Channel 10 and 1 respectively
- Open TTS-1 interface and click on the "System"button toward the right - this opens another dialogue box.
- Click on the "option" button
- Assign the channels you want to use to separate outputs. Output one is default so assign the other to output 2 (In your example channel 10 for drums)
- Click on close
- Close the "System" dialogue box using the close window icon in top right corner.
You'll now have all channels outputting to output one, except channel 10 that now outputs to output two. That way you'll have separate audio control over the bass and drums (up to four instruments in TTS-1 using that method) Scott's method works equally well but all channels will output to output one regardless of number of tracks inserted unless you specifically change the output for a channel within TTS-1. (follow from step 5 onwards) As I mentioned earlier not all synths have multiple outs. Session Drummer is another that does allowing you to set separate outputs per drum piece. That's changed in the mixer page but unlike TTS-1 that's done on a per drum basis rather than per channel. If you have SWA Complete Sonar X2 TTS-1 is covered in more detail in "MIDI synths - Part one" (3:14:17) and SessionDrummer in "Session Drummer & Drum Maps (3:33:08)"
HTH Edit:For clarity
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2013/05/22 01:32:48
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/21 21:30:13
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Excellent! thanks Karl.
As I understand it's a good idea to use fewer Soft synths, esp. if you have limited computer resources.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:midi track madness
2013/05/22 01:27:41
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M_Glenn_M
Excellent! thanks Karl.
As I understand it's a good idea to use fewer Soft synths, esp. if you have limited computer resources.
Yes generally speaking less soft synths = less resources although using one synth for double the work might take almost as much as two separate instances, I don't know TBH. Having said that synths such as TTS-1 are very low resource users. It tends to be the synths that use big sample libraries that hog the most resources. Of course as computers get more powerful that becomes less of an issue although it seems as computers get more powerful, programs etc, use more so it's a self perpetuating circle.
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