gitarman4u
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mix down file format
Just wanted to ask what is the best or preferred file format to mix down to burn to CD ? wave or flac ? and is there is difference in sound quality ? just wondering ?
Sonar X3e Producer , Dell I5 2nd gen., 8 gig ram, windows 7 64 bit. Roland Quad Capture interface, Tascam US-800 interface , Line 6 pod, mesa boogie Mark III , Mesa Boogie Express 5:50, Zion guitar, Les Paul guitar, Ovation accoustic, fender P bass, akai mini laptop keyboard, M Audio 49 Key keystation, Shure,MXL,Audio Tech mics
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Splat
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/25 19:56:03
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44.1 16 bit wav after mastering.
FLAC is compressed but it isn't lossy like mp3, consequently my music collection on my hard drive is full of them.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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AT
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/25 22:20:26
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Red Book CD is your safest bet. See Sony, Sound Forge. Comes w/ CD Architect. So does the "cheap" Studio version, I think. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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sock monkey
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/25 23:55:10
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As said if your burning a CD then your master should be the standard 44.1-16 bit. Other wise your burning software will have to render it anyhow. Some people get real screwed up thinking if you take a MP3 and burn it to a CD that it's now as good as if it was always a wave file. Sorry, once a file has been bit compressed it is screwed forever. Flac would make little difference and it's not clear if any quality is really lost. But certainly none could be gained.
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/26 05:39:35
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If you're coming from 24 bit and especially if your track has quieter moments you may want to check out dithering.
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Splat
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/26 09:28:40
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Sorry but flac won't lose quality (it is lossless compression unlike mp3), so you could use it, but everybody just uses wav. Cheers.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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bitflipper
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/26 10:04:21
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For CD, you have no choice. It must be 44.1 KHz and 16 bits to satisfy the specification and be playable on CD players. This will tell you all about it. For other formats, it depends on the software you use for encoding. FLAC encoders can handle any file format, including 32-bit floats and high sample rates, so if you're exporting for FLAC encoding leave the export file the same as your project (and don't dither). MP3 encoders work best if you give them the highest-quality format they can handle. The most widely-used encoder, which is also used by SONAR, is the free open-source LAME. Some versions, like some other MP3 encoders, can't process 32-bit files, so you might need to export 24-bit files for them. Some encoders can't handle some sample rates, so if you're recording at 48 or 96 KHz, make sure the encoder you're using can deal with it. LAME can, I think. If you're recording at 192 KHz, just stop doing that. The most important factor when encoding to MP3 is not the source file format but rather the target bitrate. If file size is not an issue, encode to 320 kb/s. Keep in mind that many file-hosting sites automatically re-encode your MP3s to 128 kb/s for streaming, but that process will work better against a 320 kb/s source file than if you send a 128 kb/s file that doesn't need to be re-encoded. So always use the highest bitrate possible (you may have to compromise if a host site has a file size limit). Somebody is likely to point out that you can't hear the difference between 320 and, say 192 kb/s. It's mostly true. You have to listen very closely to specific high-frequency elements to hear any difference. However, you don't know what might be subsequently done to your file, such as converting back to wave or re-encoding to a lower bitrate. 320 lets you keep the best quality possible for any further processing.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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gitar4u
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/28 21:01:07
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... I've been using 44.1 KHz and 16 bits in a wave file for my mix down, mastering and burning to CD but didn't know if there was something better .... when using a compressed file like flac or mp3 when both formats can be used, I take it that the flac would be a better choice because of the lossless in sound quality ? does this sound correct ?
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gitarman4u
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/28 21:04:40
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Sonar X3e Producer , Dell I5 2nd gen., 8 gig ram, windows 7 64 bit. Roland Quad Capture interface, Tascam US-800 interface , Line 6 pod, mesa boogie Mark III , Mesa Boogie Express 5:50, Zion guitar, Les Paul guitar, Ovation accoustic, fender P bass, akai mini laptop keyboard, M Audio 49 Key keystation, Shure,MXL,Audio Tech mics
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Splat
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/28 21:19:47
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gitar4u ... I've been using 44.1 KHz and 16 bits in a wave file for my mix down, mastering and burning to CD but didn't know if there was something better .... when using a compressed file like flac or mp3 when both formats can be used, I take it that the flac would be a better choice because of the lossless in sound quality ? does this sound correct ?
Yes exactly, my preference however is .wav for burning to CD or making an image. Less hassle. I wouldn't touch MP3. Cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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sock monkey
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/28 23:27:23
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I think Flac was great back when Hard drives and storage was an issue, It saves about 25% of the file size and they do certainly sound good. But now we really shouldn't be worried about file size anymore. I like Flac for downloads if I'm going to play them on the computer. But- Flac won't play on most MP3 players and car stereo systems so MP3 is a little more universal. I stay with working from start to finish with 44.1 as my music is not going to sound any different at a higher clock rate. My studio is basic stuff so I'm happy with that. The songs even seem to sound about the same after I upload them to sound cloud, clicks or reverbnation. I upload at 160 KB because of my limited bandwidth.
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
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Splat
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/28 23:52:21
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 10:09:42
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FWIW I'm always fond of pointing out that MP3 is not a data compression technology, it's a data omission technology.
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Splat
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 10:17:48
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 10:22:36
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I think the consensus from that 48/96 thread was that it may increase quality especially for softsynths that don't have an oversampling mode. So if your computer has no issues with the increased CPU load and file size it's a good default setting. However, 48 or even 44.1 is fine if your synths do have oversampling or if there is no difference for that synth. So "know what you've got" is a good rule of thumb I guess. I have been considering switching to 48 too for the same reason Alex mentioned.
post edited by Sanderxpander - 2014/09/29 14:06:41
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bitflipper
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 10:38:26
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If you use Dimension Pro you're probably using FLAC files already without knowing it. But they're converted back into wave files when you play or render them.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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sock monkey
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 10:58:37
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Yes and a lot of the Session drummer samples are flac
Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.
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Anderton
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 13:16:42
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Sanderxpander I think the consensus from that 48/96 thread was that it may increase quality especially for softsynths that don't have an oversampling mode. So if you're computer has no issues with the increased CPU load and file size it's a good default setting. However, 48 or even 44.1 is fine if your synths do have oversampling or if there is no difference for that synth.
That's a very good summary except some plug-ins also benefit from 96 kHz operation. I still run at 44.1 kHz most of the time but if needed, for soft synths I'll create a 96 kHz project, bring in the MIDI file and soft synth, render, then bring the audio into the 44.1 kHz project. The "96 kHz goodness" gets baked into the audio range, so it still sounds better at 44.1 k Hz.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 14:17:20
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You mean those plugins benefit from a softsynth running at 96KHz? I remember there was also some discussion if the "mellower highs" weren't simply a result from SRC-induced LPFing.
I'd be interested to hear if you have specific plugins that work better at 96KHz.
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Anderton
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 14:57:16
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The main types of plug-ins that benefit from 96 kHz sample rates are dynamics processors, especially ones with lookahead. Unlike synths, though, in my experience the benefits tend to be more theoretical than audibly obvious. However regarding specific plug-ins, there was a thread on Gearslutz a while back (I think it was referenced in the original 96 kHz thread) showing many plug-ins (and naming names) as having aliasing problems that could be reduced by running them at 96 kHz.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: mix down file format
2014/09/29 16:47:26
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Cool, I'll see if I can find it.
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