greg54
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mixing kick and bass
Probably a stupid question, but how do you mix the kick and bass in regards to volume in the mix? What is too loud? What is too soft? I know how to get kick/bass mixed at the same level with each other. But within the mix I don't know what is too loud or soft. Anyone have opinions?
Thanks,
Greg
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ChuckC
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/26 11:02:00
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Hey Greg,
I think the best method is to decide using reference tracks of similar well recorded/mixed material that you like bud. There is no hard-fast rule of "well if the guitar is at ___db, then the bass should be ____db, and the kick ____db". It depends far too much on the song, the tones, eq, and compression being applied and then further complicated by whether or not the kick or bass is vital focal point for THAT song? Are they supposed to stand out? One more than the other? Go by what "feels" good. In the end, This process of engineering is about conveying a feeling, an emotion to the end listener.
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greg54
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/26 11:26:04
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Thanks, Chuck! That helps...
Greg
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tfbattag
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/26 19:45:50
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ChuckC
Hey Greg,
I think the best method is to decide using reference tracks of similar well recorded/mixed material that you like bud. There is no hard-fast rule of "well if the guitar is at ___db, then the bass should be ____db, and the kick ____db". It depends far too much on the song, the tones, eq, and compression being applied and then further complicated by whether or not the kick or bass is vital focal point for THAT song? Are they supposed to stand out? One more than the other? Go by what "feels" good. In the end, This process of engineering is about conveying a feeling, an emotion to the end listener.
+1 Great advice. The only thing that I might add is making sure that you understand how your monitors translate to other systems. Your monitors/room may trick you into mixing bass-heavy or bass-weak. Make sure you know how your mixes translate, as you may need to accommodate the nuances caused by your room or monitors. Otherwise, go with Chuck's advice.
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ChuckC
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/27 02:15:11
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TheMaartian
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/27 09:15:19
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☄ Helpfulby stevesweat 2016/11/28 08:08:00
Here's an interesting "trick".
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dcumpian
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/28 08:36:04
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TheMaartian
Here's an interesting "trick".
I tried that. Turns out, after I was done, the levels were already where I'd put them previously, so "use your ears" still works... Regards, Dan
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Jeff Evans
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/28 14:14:51
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☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2016/11/28 17:01:57
This is called mixing with a VU meter and it can and does work. But be careful here because this approach actually assumes you have the right amount of sub or deep energy in both the kick and the bass sounds.
In my studio where I actually sit and mix the sound is great except that any real deep energy or sub type deep energy is slightly quieter compared to when I get up and stand a little further back. So in this case it would be easy to use this method and set the two levels OK except that both sounds would still have a slight excess of that deep energy. It is not until I move around the room into the spot where it is very audible that I notice it.
So it is important to sometimes to use a HPF set for a steeper slope and just the right cutoff freq in order to tame that excessive deepness on one or both of those sounds. This is more important in my opinion. Once I do this then the kick and/or bass sounds great in both positions and then I know the deep energy is tamed just right. This video totally overlooks that. Once you get that energy balanced just right then this approach works well.
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Randy P
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/28 15:31:31
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☄ Helpfulby TheMaartian 2016/11/28 17:02:27
Chucks advice is pretty spot on, but I'll just add a note. Be sure and leave yourself plenty of headroom. Bass and kick drum are what I usually start with when doing a mix. Once I get good levels (usually around -12db), I know I'll have plenty of room for mastering when everything else is in there. A good tip I learned years ago is that when mixing a song with vocals, is to make sure the kick, bass and vocal all play nicely together before bringing up the guitars, keys, etc. Those 3 are the elements that are going to sit in the middle of the sound stage, and if they don't sit well together you can end up chasing your tail...so to speak.
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greg54
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/28 20:32:15
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☄ Helpfulby Slugbaby 2016/11/29 08:53:08
Thanks for your advice, everyone. I really appreciate it!
Greg
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ChuckC
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/28 23:25:40
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Randy P
A good tip I learned years ago is that when mixing a song with vocals, is to make sure the kick, bass and vocal all play nicely together before bringing up the guitars, keys, etc. Those 3 are the elements that are going to sit in the middle of the sound stage, and if they don't sit well together you can end up chasing your tail...so to speak.
Thanks Randy, the above tip is F'ING BRILLIANT! Can't believe I never thought of it that way, but what a damn smart way to attack the middle of your stereo image and make sure it is SOLID before worrying about the sides! Thanks for that. Even if I still start my mixes drums first (which I do), then bass... I will now start to forgo the guitars till after I have the Vocal set up. That makes more sense than I can explain. I feel like a dipsh!t for not thinking of it myself!
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patm300e
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 07:37:42
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Slugbaby
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 08:54:16
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ChuckC
Thanks Randy, the above tip is F'ING BRILLIANT! Can't believe I never thought of it that way, but what a damn smart way to attack the middle of your stereo image and make sure it is SOLID before worrying about the sides! Thanks for that. Even if I still start my mixes drums first (which I do), then bass... I will now start to forgo the guitars till after I have the Vocal set up. That makes more sense than I can explain. I feel like a dipsh!t for not thinking of it myself!
You wrote exactly what i was thinking. Thanks Randy!
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Randy P
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 09:13:47
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You're quite welcome gents. The way I came up with the technique goes back to my live performing days in the 80's. I had a 4 piece hard rock band, with myself on rhythm guitar and lead vocal. Our back line was pretty stout. Myself and the lead guitarist both played through 100w Marshall stacks. The bassist played through 2 300+ watt Ampeg amps with 2 8X10 cabs. We could blow your hair back!
We got into the habit of doing our sound checks, by doing drums, bass and then vocals first. Only after those elements were balanced were we allowed to play our guitars. It also helped to keep our stage volume at a reasonable level. Stage monitors back then weren't all that great, so we were careful not to get too loud with the stage levels. Once we figured this out, the FOH engineer could push the PA as loud as was necessary for the venue and we got a lot of complements about how clear our sound was out front. Turns out it works the same with mixing recorded material, especially rock and roll.
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Slugbaby
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 09:47:21
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Randy P
The bassist played through 2 300+ watt Ampeg amps with 2 8X10 cabs. We could blow your hair back!
I used to play through one 8x10. Hit a low E, and I'd feel the legs of my jeans blow forward! Kinda miss that these days...
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batsbrew
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 10:48:03
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you don't need a VU meter to set up the bass/kick relationship as shown on the vid... in fact, the meters that are built into sonar are just fine, and instead of some artificial setting in the vu VST to shoot for, simply set the kick at -18, and add in the bass until you hit -15 combined, it's the same thing. the digital meters have control of rms and peak value hold settings, set those up to somewhat match the velocity of the VU, it'll be close enough for government work. 
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Randy P
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 11:05:11
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Slugbaby
Randy P
The bassist played through 2 300+ watt Ampeg amps with 2 8X10 cabs. We could blow your hair back!
I used to play through one 8x10. Hit a low E, and I'd feel the legs of my jeans blow forward!
Kinda miss that these days...
Yup! Whenever we got on the big stages, he'd bring his other 2 cabs. I thought we were going to have to weld the drum kit down for fear it might vibrate off the stage.
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TheMaartian
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Re: mixing kick and bass
2016/11/29 11:56:18
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Randy P
Slugbaby
Randy P
The bassist played through 2 300+ watt Ampeg amps with 2 8X10 cabs. We could blow your hair back!
I used to play through one 8x10. Hit a low E, and I'd feel the legs of my jeans blow forward!
Kinda miss that these days...
Yup! Whenever we got on the big stages, he'd bring his other 2 cabs. I thought we were going to have to weld the drum kit down for fear it might vibrate off the stage.
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