Helpful Replymp3 complaint

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mcourter
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2016/05/12 16:58:40 (permalink)

mp3 complaint

First, I was surprised Cakewalk actually charges for an mp3 encoder, which I think should be built it. And then, they rejected 3 credit cards that are perfectly good when I tried to buy it. No problem, I use a free one made by someone else. Not even a real complaint, since the solution was simpler elsewhere, I just find it puzzling

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#1
John
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 18:26:06 (permalink)
Its quite simple MP3 is a format that is licensed. A fee is required for use. CW passes that fee on to the users if they want to use the MP3 version bundled with Sonar. Pay it once and you need not pay it again for a update.   

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John
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Sycraft
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 18:38:26 (permalink)
There is a lot of confusion about that since there are free mp3 encoders, and h.264 encoders and so on. What people don't realize is that while the software itself can be freely distributed basically for academic purposes and such but if you use them to actually make and distribute stuff you are legally required to pay a license.
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Jesse G
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 18:48:25 (permalink)
you could have used Lame's free MP3 encoder which Sonar gives instructions on how to integrate with it's product.
 
I used Lame for several years with Sonar utl I broke down and purchased it one of those Sonar Versions in the past.

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LaszloZoltan
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 19:41:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John 2016/05/12 23:44:38
I don't want to sound dismissive, but US $10 is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things- with vsts going $299+: digital age diy music can be fairly expensive... what comes to mind is that scene on the beach in nam "do you want to fight ? or do you want to surf ?"
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dlesaux
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 20:15:11 (permalink)
This topic comes up regularly. You can use the Lame encoder for free or pay the one time twenty buck fee and create MP3 files from within Sonar.

Peace!
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Cactus Music
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 20:27:23 (permalink)
I use the MP3 encoder that comes with Gold Wave, That way I can do batch encoding of a whole album quickly. 
Gold Wave is free to try and real cheap to buy. Highly recommended. You can buy a yearly licence for as low as $15 but a lifetime membership is only $45US - $ 59can  and they supply free updates for life. 
http://www.goldwave.ca/index.php
 
I also use Wave Lab for mastering and they used to include the MP3 encoder but with the new version they now have done the same as Sonar and you have to pay for a licence, so don't just blame Cakewalk.  
It's just so much easier to download something like Goldwave which works without fuss.  Not only MP3 but it also encodes to iTunes plus, FLAC and most all formats. It's also not a bad little wave editor, but I have Wave Lab so haven't dug to deep. 
 
Audacity:  
I don't use it but many do, Audacity also is free and has the LAME encoder but looks like a plug in. 
 
http://www.audacityteam.org/download/
 
Wavosaur: 
And here is yet another free wave editor that comes with Batch conversion for MP3. 
 http://www.wavosaur.com/
 
Not sure how these 3 get around the licence I guess it's because they include LAME which is free. 
So to me $10 is too much when there are free alternatives. 
 
 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/05/12 20:52:26

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#7
Sycraft
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 20:29:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/05/13 19:31:06
LaszloZoltan
I don't want to sound dismissive, but US $10 is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things- with vsts going $299+: digital age diy music can be fairly expensive... what comes to mind is that scene on the beach in nam "do you want to fight ? or do you want to surf ?"



I think people complain because they believe it is free. Like they think Cakewalk could just compile a LAME DLL and include it at no charge. They don't know that MP3 requires licensing. Lots of individuals violate MP3 licensing requirements because they aren't aware they exist. However a company can't or they'll get sued.
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LaszloZoltan
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/12 21:35:25 (permalink)
dlesaux
This topic comes up regularly. You can use the Lame encoder for free or pay the one time twenty buck fee and create MP3 files from within Sonar.




WHAT ???? 
They jacked the price up ???
Those b*****ds !
#9
dlesaux
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 03:55:40 (permalink)
LaszloZoltan
dlesaux
This topic comes up regularly. You can use the Lame encoder for free or pay the one time twenty buck fee and create MP3 files from within Sonar.




WHAT ???? 
They jacked the price up ???
Those b*****ds !


My mistake! Its ten bucks. Sorry.

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#10
chuckebaby
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 07:31:14 (permalink)
while I agree it is licensed and that's why your paying 10 dollars for it, does it really cost that much for the license ? 
it was free in cakewalk pro audio 9 am I right ? I don't see why cakewalk doesn't just include it for free.
when you buy a piece of software for hundreds of dollars, it almost seems demoralizing to pay an extra 10 dollars for an encoder. I still think it should be included for free myself. but that's just my 2 cento's 

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#11
Zargg
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 07:51:40 (permalink)
Hi. There is always this http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2677774 I have used it for some years.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#12
Slugbaby
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 08:49:25 (permalink)
With all the free MP3 converters available, and the fact that I don't usually compress my own music to MP3, i'm glad that it's an "added option" instead of a bundled product with mandatory purchase.
$10 is $10.  It's a lunch I can buy instead of making, it's 2 sets of guitar strings, it's another album I can purchase, it's another bill my wife can swipe from my wallet (and therefore improve my home life immeasurably)...

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JayCee99
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 14:02:06 (permalink)
The mp3 encoder not being included is kind of an annoyance.  One thing that could ease the pain is if they made it super simple to use LAME.  Like put LAME in whatever folder and Sonar uses it. 

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Morvejones
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 19:22:08 (permalink)
Slugbaby
With all the free MP3 converters available, and the fact that I don't usually compress my own music to MP3, i'm glad that it's an "added option" instead of a bundled product with mandatory purchase.
$10 is $10.  It's a lunch I can buy instead of making, it's 2 sets of guitar strings, it's another album I can purchase, it's another bill my wife can swipe from my wallet (and therefore improve my home life immeasurably)...


You could also say the same about the other software that gets bundled with sonar sinse its included with the price, Multiple copies of Dimension pro, Rapture, addictive drums etc.

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#15
tlw
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/13 19:29:55 (permalink)
chuckebaby
while I agree it is licensed and that's why your paying 10 dollars for it, does it really cost that much for the license ? 
it was free in cakewalk pro audio 9 am I right ? I don't see why cakewalk doesn't just include it for free.
when you buy a piece of software for hundreds of dollars, it almost seems demoralizing to pay an extra 10 dollars for an encoder. I still think it should be included for free myself. but that's just my 2 cento's 


I believe the current license covering patents and codec is something like $6 or 7 in the US if you buy one directly yourself.

If Cakewalk included the license in the product price they'd presumably have to account to Technicolor (previously called Thomson Consumer Electronics) for every copy of Sonar sold in the US and possibly the EU so the correct license fees can be calculated. The whole issue of mp3 licensing is horribly confused, see https://en.wikipedia.org/...ership_and_legislation for more details.

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slartabartfast
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/14 11:58:13 (permalink)
Sycraft
There is a lot of confusion about that since there are free mp3 encoders, and h.264 encoders and so on. What people don't realize is that while the software itself can be freely distributed basically for academic purposes and such but if you use them to actually make and distribute stuff you are legally required to pay a license.



I do not think educational purposes is at all relevant to the claim that MP3 software can be freely distributed. The MP3 encoding process itself is covered by some reasonably broad patents. Unlike a copyright that protects the actual expression of the work, a patent protects the idea behind the process or device, and variations or applications that use that protected process are infringements. The shaky argument that LAME (Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder) distribution depends on is the distinction between creating a protected device, and having a blueprint or method to create such a device. I can own or write and distribute a plan (subject to copyright) that will allow you to build a widget. In fact the whole idea of patent registration is to disclose that information in sufficient detail to allow someone to build your device, or how would they know they were infringing in the first place. Things change, however, if I take the same plan and construct a device that uses the underlying concept. In that case it is the construction of the device that is the infringing action. So the LAME authors generally distribute source code (a plan to build a piece of software) rather than compiled code (the working software itself), and leave it up to you to do the dirty deed inside your computer. Whether that is sufficient abstraction to clear the hurdle is somewhat questionable, but pretty clearly distributing a precompiled LAME encoder or embedding one in software you distribute does infringe any patents used in creating it. Of course if you can set up your server in a jurisdiction that does not recognize or enforce the relevant patents, or otherwise dodge enforcement, you can distribute infringing devices and probably get away with it, just as you can set up a factory in such a place to make infringing widgets, which may nonetheless be confiscated and result in legal action if you try to import it into a jurisdiction that does enforce the patent. It is wise for Cakewalk to license whatever it needs, since companies with far bigger legal budgets have run afoul of the issue.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft_Corp.
 
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/05/14 16:14:23
#17
mcourter
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 15:09:23 (permalink)
That was quite a response to what was admittedly a very minor complaint. I'm glad to see the spirit of open dialogue is alive and well. Incidentally, LAME does work quite well

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microapp
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 16:00:05 (permalink)
It is my understanding that the Cakewalk MP3 encoder is actually the Lame Encoder.
post edited by microapp - 2016/05/19 16:25:16

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Anderton
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 19:38:43 (permalink)
microapp
It is my understanding that the Cakewalk MP3 encoder is actually the Lame Encoder.



I doubt that makes any difference. The licensing fee is attached to the process. Whether using LAME or anything else, it's based on the license.
 
However all of this will become moot when the last of the patents run out, and by that time, I suspect we'll be living in a FLAC world anyway. IMHO MP3 is a data compression scheme whose time has come and gone.

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Brando
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 20:50:16 (permalink)
The problem is that the MP3 format is so ubiquitous. It's so easy to just provide an MP3 when someone needs a compressed format. FLAC (and Ogg Vorbis, APE, etc) may be superior but there's still an element of uncertainty with respect to codecs, player compatibility etc. Especially in commercial players, car stereos, etc. MP3's just work. Suck but work. LOL.

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Brando
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 20:51:14 (permalink)
Hope your right though - would love to see broad acceptance of FLAC.

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#22
rabeach
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Re: mp3 complaint 2016/05/19 20:57:37 (permalink)
mcourter
..... And then, they rejected 3 credit cards that are perfectly good when I tried to buy it. .....


If your credit card is good and your banks says the transaction was approved and cleverbridge says it was declined you have to call the 800 number for cleverbridge. They will ask permission to submit the charge on your behalf. Tell them okay and all will be good. They can't see your personal info or credit card number. If you want to force the issue go back and forth with them with 8 or 9 emails and then indulge hours of phone support have at it. It is possibly the only thing that will motivate them to address the issue. Their phone support is very good other than they can't solve the problem without resubmitting the charge on their end. :-)
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