music

I tried the password and could not get it to work.  I think it is bad idea to ask for listens and make people do this.

The password works.


best,
mike

Login a bit strange  take all types.

Sounds nice and open and airy.

Mike, I would love to listen to your music, but a login with password ? No.

smell that?!? uh huh...TOO DAMN FUNKY for words brother Mike!!!!!, do da DAMN THANG!!!!!!!!

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the info on the signal chain...I was thinking it sounded like an 1176 (there's something about the release...) and now I know why.  Incidentally, how do you like the MC77, and have you used any of Purple's 500 series stuff? I've been eyeing it for a while but haven't gotten around to getting any.

Dean

Hi Dean, I like the MC77 a whole bunch. I usually just go for 2 or 3dB gain reduction on the way in and set up the gain staging for that. I use the fastest attack as well. I've never worked with the 500 series Purple stuff but I imagine it's sweet.

Hi bapu, thanks for the comment about the verb... comments like that are welcomed as valuable and helpful feedback. Movie night? When ever your ready to stop by!


best regards,
mike

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Part of my interest in this project is in focusing on the drum tone, and the kit in that room. I think the suggestion to pull back on the reverb will help somewhat.

FWIW, there are no intentions to add further instruments.

It's just drums and bass played live... music.

I think I may back off the parallel compression and the stuff on the track and see if your suggestion to highlight the players dynamic touch can be realized. I was going for an over the top fat, fat sound, but what you have said makes a lot of sense.


best regards,
mike



edit for spelling and grammar

Here is a mix with the reverb removed and a lot of the compression backed off.

http://harmoniccycle.com/...2-rough%20mix%20v2.mp3
user name: indigogo
password: yeah man cool

I tried one of Rhythm in my Mind's  Bricasti true stereo IR impulses in Pristine Space and it sounded nice.

I'll try a few different reverbs, the deep low end one is a favorite of mine but it will be cool to try other stuff, especially stuff that doesn't make the low end so cloudy.

The set up was Kick, Snare, Hi Hat, LDC Overheads, SDC XY room mics. There is some low cut on each track... some stuff at 20Hz some stuff at 160hz etc.

I reset all the compressors so they just grabbed the top peaks like soft limiters.

I did leave a mild setting of Elephant limiter on the Mains so that the track sounded loud enough to seem familiar.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

best regards,
mike

If it we me I'd just do drum replacement on the kick on the new version.

Yes that sounds much better.  I don't mind that kick sound actually there's nothing 'wrong' with it although some may have different preferences.

Here are some suggestions based on the mic setup you've given just to try out and see what you think.

Start with the OH pair what I like here is what I call a 'tight squeeze' basically HPF from around 180 to 200 khz, compression witha fairly low threshold so even the sharpest accents on the hats get into the zone, not too fast an attack but enough speed just to allow the initial crack of the snare through, GR about 4-7 db to taste and a long enough release so the cymbal swishes don't sound like they are washing back in badly.  The HPF should have taken care of the low end of the kick enough not to be carrying any weight and same with the toms, watch for any hyped areas in the highs where the hats or cymbals might sound fried. back off a little with a wide Q if that is the case you can use a high shelf to + or - the air to taste.  You are aiming for the whole basis of the kit sound here so spend the most time getting all the elements within a nice dynamic range but seriously taming any stray hits.

Move on to the room, I'd start out in mono here even though you've catered for stereo you'll get more 'thunder' and less mud from the low end by keeping in the middle and your OH's should be providing the width you need. Again you don't want subs here but unlike the OH's you don't need to go top heavy, so either shelve below 120 hz or use a HPF and pull out all those unwanted low mids you spoke about here, I often use dynamic mics in the room position in those circumstances there's little you need above 6khz anyway and it makes any verb you apply easier to control if you've remove anything that will cause your room effect to sound brittle.  Some people absolutely smash the room mics and that may be what you want although given this style I'd just give it a stern talking to rather than beat the daylights out of it but experiment with the comp here.  Also with your convolution try it before or after any compression, see what you prefer.

Get these 2 elements Room and OH working together first before moving on to any close mic augmentation.   The kick is usually easy to find the sweet spot where the subs are anywhere between 50 and 90 hz usually, I normally boost a few db there followed by a wide scoop to allow the bass the space, often a narrow peak will reveal some nice beater noise to give the kick some good impact to go with the subs.  Bring that meatiness in to go nicely with the rest.

Same with the snare eq to taste and bring in till it starts to add the detail that is still missing and no more.

Listening to this take I'd say it's very unlikely that you'd need the close hats here although they might have some interesting bleed to bring to the table.  If you do use them I'd suggest rolling off everything below 1500 khz and just bring out a bit of sizzzle near the top to add a little shine to what's already there but it does seem like you'll have a bit of peak taming to do there as well.

Mike this is all from the FWIW dept I'm not trying to sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs I just want to help getting the most out of the drums in your new room and these are just the places I'd be looking at and are offered as my humble suggestions to do with what you will.

Here is a "stem" of a short section with just the Overheads and the room XY.

http://harmoniccycle.com/...2015a%20OH%20XYwav.mp3

The XY track is peaking approximately 6dB lower than the Overheads and it has a much higher low cut point. The low cut curve is also very soft rather than steep.

There's still a lot of kick in the OH... partially because I have it EQ'd with just a bit of hi-pass so as to accommodate the tom rolls. I'll probably cut into that as I sculpt the kick tone.

Are the cymbals brittle to your ears? I have a built in "low pass" if you know what I mean. ;-)

I have some ribbons which I'd like to use but the need for air conditioning between jams makes using them up near the vents to much trouble.

best regards,
mike

mike_mccue


Here is a "stem" of a short section with just the Overheads and the room XY.

http://harmoniccycle.com/...2015a%20OH%20XYwav.mp3

XLNT!!

Sounding really good to me.

Hi Jeff,
 Thanks for the detailed analysis and suggestions.

 I gave my ears a rest yesterday and listened again to day with what you have written in my mind.

 I think I tend to favor the sound of a room and pronounced overheads more so than a close mic studio sound, but having said that, all your suggestions seem pertinent and easy to appreciate if I want to work towards more of a close mic sound.

 Thanks for the ideas about the compression. I really have backed off quite a bit but I still have some fast attacks and 3:1 ratios, but the thresholds are set to just trim the tops a bit.

 There's no compression on the over heads until you hit the bus.

 The hi hat track is peaking 18 lower than the OH tracks. I'll watch it song by song as we proceed.

 I have a very little bit of parallel compression left in the mix on a 2nd bus... I think I am using it just as you describe... to augment for the lack of other instrumentation.

 When I pulled back further on the compression to open it up more I felt that it wasn't representative of the powerful playing attitude both these players bring to jam sessions. These guys play a whole range but they really hit their stride when they play loud and hard and I wanted to keep that feel in the recording.

 I give it another listen later in the week and I'll inform the drummer of the possible choices.
 
 I thank everyone for the suggestions. I actually liked the initial track with the heavy drama reverb and the heavy compression. It was styled to be sure... but I actually like that live tape feel... that is how it came to sound that way.

 After considering all the comments, I made the changes and am pleased to say that I like the cleaner tones even better.

 It's funny, I placed the reverb on the first track at the very end... I had always intended too, so it seemed fine when I did it. Now I realize that I have returned to the stripped down tonality I listened to when I logged the takes and tracks and cut the segments together for the rough mix. :-)

Thanks for all the help.

all the best,
mike