need drum ideas for a demo

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batsbrew
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2017/01/05 13:35:33 (permalink)

need drum ideas for a demo

Michaels house
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew/michaels-house
 
i'm beginning re-recording of this demo....
the original drum track is an old zoom 123 drum machine....
 
i will probably program something in superior,
but i need a riff that is equally as frenetic as the original,
any ideas?
 

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    bayoubill
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/05 17:58:51 (permalink)
    What works for me is to invent the drum riffs in your head in advance then record it. Let your imagination help out! Not just one or two but each time you hit replay. Doing it will also develop working arrangements without the use of anything but your brain. Practicing/performing without an instrument. This takes consideration and isolation, for me. In other words no distractions. It pays dividends in other areas as well. 

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    #2
    bayoubill
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/05 18:01:55 (permalink)
    That drum track is stock for you Gonzo. JMHO

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    #3
    Sheanes
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/05 18:03:27 (permalink)
    thinking of a 'Bonham' style kit, with Michaels (kick, kick) House (snare flam) and then add hats or ride for the rest.
    could listen to The Fratellis - Chelsea Dagger 
     
     
    #4
    Cactus Music
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/05 18:31:05 (permalink)
    What ever was originally used doesn't seem to lock with the guitars and bass at all. 
    Myself I would build a kick track around the bass line and just add a little more than that to make it frantic. 
    It calls out for something to follow the rhythm guitar part more closely. 

    Johnny V  
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    #5
    batsbrew
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/05 18:50:51 (permalink)
    YES, FRANTIC...
    is what i want.
     
    not a laid back groove,
    this thing has to push relentlessly.
    relentlessly.
     
    almost painfully.
     

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    markno999
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 11:44:41 (permalink)
    An idea might be (assuming you have a constant tempo or a tempo map .mid) to post a version without any drums and see if you get any interesting audio ideas/examples from other posters here.  If you do that, I would leave a reference track for what you previously had just has a baseline.    
     
    Regards
    #7
    batsbrew
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 12:57:10 (permalink)
    well, this is a demo off of a cassette,
     i made on a tascam 688 unit i no longer have.
     
    all there is of the demo, is this stereo file.
     
    i'll be doing this all over from scratch, rearrangement, new lyric, all that,
    so i can start it anytime i want..
     
    the thing i DON'T want,
    is a standard rock groove, simply sped up...
     
     
    i don't use 'tempo maps' when i record,
    i write an 'arrangement', as i typically have it already complete in my head.
     
    i then write a drum track complete, then start recording to it,
    and edit it later, once everything has been written and recorded.
     
     
    i could even do a fast paced latin percussion rhythm section, 
    even THAT would work..
     
    but it's gotta be this fast, this idea of pushing the beat relentlessly... that's key.
     
    as far as using live drums, i don't have anyone local in mind,
    that have the chops to do it.
     
    it's hard to find folks with enough intensity to match this groove,
    that's why i haven't just asked for collab interest....
     
    but, 
    if anyone was bold enough..............
     


    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
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    "Stay"
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    quantumeffect
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 12:57:24 (permalink)
    just a suggestion ...
     
    I would match the vocal phrasing with a crash on 1 and a crash on the and of 2 along with the bass drum every time it happened.  It sounds like you started to catch the phrasing with some accents at the very beginning but the fell back to the same driving 16th note groove throughout.
     
    As per markno999 i'd be happy to throw a few ideas onto a drumless ... unfortunately ;) I only do live drums.

    Dave

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    #9
    batsbrew
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 13:01:45 (permalink)
    quantumeffect
    I would match the vocal phrasing with a crash on 1 and a crash on the and of 2 along with the bass drum every time it happened.  It sounds like you started to catch the phrasing with some accents at the very beginning but the fell back to the same driving 16th note groove throughout.
     
    As per markno999 i'd be happy to throw a few ideas onto a drumless ... unfortunately ;) I only do live drums.




     
    you mean like, for example, on the 'michaels house.......'
    accent on the M and the H?  with crash and kick?
     
    hm....
    that's a neat idea.
     
     
     
    live drums WOULD be the best for this,
    same BPM, same basic arrangement as the demo, but with more sections, and i have 3 key changes that are going to happen,
    and one dead stop section i'm adding...
     
    if you wanted to try your hand at it, come up with some unique beats, JUST TO SEE if it floats,
    go for it grommit!!
    heheh
     

    Bats Brew music Streaming
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    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
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    jamesg1213
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 13:48:20 (permalink)
    Not that there's anything wrong with your programmed drums, but I've often thought your stuff would be even better with a real drummer.

     
    Jyemz
     
     
     



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    eph221
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 14:00:38 (permalink)
    jamesg1213
    Not that there's anything wrong with your programmed drums, but I've often thought your stuff would be even better with a real drummer.




     
    I'm with James here.  Your song writing, playing etc is so strong you really need to find other's to collaborate with. That's the missing link as far as I can see.:D:D

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    #12
    batsbrew
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 14:04:09 (permalink)
    i'd never have anything out,
    if i was waiting for a truly excellent drummer to pop up out of thin air!
     

     
    life is short.
    and i got a lot to say.
    and not much time on this planet to do it....
     
    and..
     
    i've found that 99% of the people that listen to my stuff,
    don't know the diff anyway!
     
     
    sad, but true
     
     
    besides, my drum programming rocks.
    imho


    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
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    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
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    eph221
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 14:07:17 (permalink)
    batsbrew
    i'd never have anything out,
    if i was waiting for a truly excellent drummer to pop up out of thin air!
     

     
    life is short.
    and i got a lot to say.
    and not much time on this planet to do it....
     
    and..
     
    i've found that 99% of the people that listen to my stuff,
    don't know the diff anyway!
     
     
    sad, but true
     
     
    besides, my drum programming rocks.
    imho





     
    That's a good point (that most people couldn't tell the difference).  I remember in classical guitar there'd be these really atrocious players giving mediocre concerts.  The audiences were *enthralled* anyways.  HAHA  (I'm not trying to imply that your drums are atrocious or mediocre, they're really good.)

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    #14
    markno999
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    Re: need drum ideas for a demo 2017/01/06 15:26:34 (permalink)
    batsbrew
    well, this is a demo off of a cassette,
     i made on a tascam 688 unit i no longer have.
     
    all there is of the demo, is this stereo file.
     
    i'll be doing this all over from scratch, rearrangement, new lyric, all that,
    so i can start it anytime i want..
     
    the thing i DON'T want,
    is a standard rock groove, simply sped up...
     
     
    i don't use 'tempo maps' when i record,
    i write an 'arrangement', as i typically have it already complete in my head.
     
    i then write a drum track complete, then start recording to it,
    and edit it later, once everything has been written and recorded.
     
     
    i could even do a fast paced latin percussion rhythm section, 
    even THAT would work..
     



    Bat,
     
    Definitely understand the limitation of the cassette only recording.  That would prevent the suggestion of posting a drumless version for input:)
     
    Also understand your comment about tempo.  What I was suggesting was less about basing your idea on a tempo map and more about making a tempo map of your scratch outline, or however you sketch out your projects, after you have created it.  That way you have a MIDI tempo map that matches your actual performance or vision for the tempo or arrangement.  This gives you the flexibility of adding samples, loops, MIDI, etc.. so they follow you, not you follow them.  You could also use it to audition some MIDI loops or drum loops for ideas or sanity check on different rhythms in this case.    Tempo map gives you the flexibility of using a real drummer and using samples for support, foundation, flourishes, latin percussion as you mentioend, etc.... 
     
    Recently picked up a CLA mix project from Slate Digital and the production includes real drums, some sample loops and other random MIDI samples.  They tempo mapped their live performance to allow this MIDI integration after the fact.    I realize everyone has their own methods.   I typically tempo map everything because it gives me flexibility to add MIDI to audio performance or add realism to an otherwise MIDI only performance.  Just recently Tempo mapped the Pink Floyd song Money so I can do a realistic cover of it in the future.   That was a challenge:)
     
    Good luck with your remake.   
     

    Regards
    #15
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