The Maillard Reaction
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:17:00
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jamesg1213
What DID we do before Wikepedia.
Conveniently substitute banter for a discussion of nuanced details?
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:17:22
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jamesg1213
What DID we do before Wikepedia.
Well, I used Wikipedia 
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jamesg1213
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:22:44
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mike_mccue
jamesg1213
What DID we do before Wikepedia.
Conveniently substitute banter for a discussion of nuanced details?
Actually have an informed opinion based on knowledge, rather than than taking a random contrary position and then digging around for snippets to support it?
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jbow
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:43:25
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I like Levin. You know exactly where he stands on an issue. He is entertaining too.
Does it really matter how long people live. Doesn't it matter a lot more what we do while we are living. Some people have lived short lives of quality that are long remembered, others long useless lives that won't be remembered for a week.
J
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:44:28
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What happens when someones asks you to proove that your informedness is correct?
I have a couple large book shelfs full of memories here.
Wiki seems like a great convenience for people that may be curious but don't want to go buy those books.
My informed opinion is that I believe that describing complex circumstance with casual cliche is ineffective at furthering a greater understanding.
My informed opinion is that the bad habit of asking questions with no intention of learning any thing from the reply has become a popular way to subvert the evolution of shared under standing.
My opinion about the OP is that Tim can, as far as I'm concerned, say anything he wants to say and I'll listen to him as Tim and respect that, but I also think the article that he linked to was written by a complete idiot, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the idiot's disagreement about the political issue being discussed. I have yet other discrete and sincere feeling about the actual politics of the issue... which I will elect to keep to myself. I have yet even more complex thoughts about firearms and their role in society... and I honestly don't think you are going to be handle the complexity of those without making time to add some further criticism of what you seem to regard as random thoughts.
best regards,
mike
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jbow
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 17:48:34
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Oh... did I post in the middle of an argument? Pardon me. I will try to do better.
Ya'll... nevermind.
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jamesg1213
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 18:11:34
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Misjudged late night post.
post edited by jamesg1213 - 2013/01/13 09:45:21
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soens
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 18:31:26
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craigb
I won't contribute to the ongoing facts battle, but I will observe that people now tend to outlive their usefulness.
I'll jes has yar know a very well known fact round here is... I has no usefulness! And nevar did! 
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timidi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 18:51:30
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Glad to see Freedom of speech is alive and well (at least).
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Danny Danzi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 19:06:39
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There is actually some cool stuff in this thread...good reads! I do have a question I'm just curious about. Do you guys ever feel you don't belong here in this country? For example, I'm not for Democrat or Republican. All I want is for someone to come in and make us one of the greatest countries in the world again as I don't feel we are anymore. Morale is down everywhere, people are being bled dry...you know the routine. We can point fingers all we want....the truth in my opinion is the leaders of the past just put a band-aide on things so they wouldn't look bad. So it's not 1 person being at fault really but a big bunch of mess that has just snow-balled over time. That said, every time I vote for someone, that someone loses. I no longer want to vote because I feel that I am: A) Too stupid to understand things that I THINK I understand very well yet I am in the minority B) Those that do not vote or feel as I do are the stupid ones It's gotta be one or the other and to be honest, I welcome either with open arms at this point. We're in so deep with so many issues now, only Jesus Himself would be the only one to step in and say "ok look, I got it from here." LOL! There are just so many things broken from the past/breaking in the present....I can't even watch the news or read about this stuff without feeling the need to snap. These days, I've been taking Bub's stance....I throw my hands in the air and say "there's nothing I can do to change it." We vote for people that chirp one song before they get elected, they get in, everything changes no matter who wins. It just gets to the point of "why bother?" We are supposed to have a voice yet our voices don't get heard and if you try to really push your point, you get bumped off or something if you even try to rise into power to fight for your rights. I wish I had the answers, but it's time for all those that are in higher places to take a look at the world instead of what goes on in their lives in that one state on "The Hill". I wish someone with some power had the answers and could implement them and make it all better. :( -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2013/01/12 19:08:47
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yorolpal
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 19:17:53
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To quote one of the more infamous Pols from my state, "I feel your pain", ol pal. That said be careful of looking for saviours who have answers and the power to implement them at will and promises to "make everything all better". Their name might be Adolf...or Pol Pot...or just plain ol Joe. That's what all them dern checks and balances are for. Or thats what they used to be for. Now there just for stoppin the other fella at the ten yard line and not lettin em into the redzone. Ever. I sometimes wish I was a happy idiot (and to some above...were they to know some of my views...I just might be considered one) who not only didn't care about stuff but wasn't even capable of understanding it. Tough titty for me tho. I seem to have a piece of brain lodged in my headbone. And I actually try and use it now and again. Don't know that I succeed tho:-)
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timidi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 19:19:03
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dern post got deleted....
post edited by timidi - 2013/01/12 20:05:01
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yorolpal
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 19:22:38
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I suppose if I thought that my aunt Nelda was the mafia I might eye her a little differently too. But what's the use of deluding myself...I do that enough already.
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jbow
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 20:48:36
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The biggest problem is this. We keep electing politicians to office. You cannot believe what a politician says, they say one thing to one group and something else to another group and we know it, yet we elect them anyway. We desperatey need some true statesmen. Congressman David Crockett stopped the first attempt by congress to give public money to a private person, the widow of a distinguished gentleman. He won the day with his argument that congress had NO right to give pubic money to a private citizen. He was later voted out, they tried it again and without him it started. After losing his election he told the good people of his district that they could go to hell, he was going to Texas and the rest is history. No matter how you cut it, right is right and wrong is wrong and decisions cannot be based on subjectivity. Law must be based on the fundamental rights laid out in the bill of rights... or we lose freedom with every one. It isn't hard to know right from wrong, it is just hard to find people who will do the right thing instead of what they feel is justice. Every law, every regulation should be measured by the constitution and what it actually says. If we decide we don't like it we have to option of a constitutional convention and a constitutional ammendment... but for people to just ignore the constitution after taking a vow to uphold and defend it is an abomination. If we are not informed we should become informed but it is a real shame that we can no longer trust the "media" to give us news. We can however, know the constitution and we can read the bills these people are considering and the ones they have passed. We can get opinions from candidates if we know what to ask them. It is on us to become informed and to inform our children and friends. We have placed our most precious things, our children in the care of government schools. Some are good some are horrible but all are government (except for private schools). We are ranked 17th in public education... really? It is no wonder people don't understand what a good elected official should be and do. History is a good thing, it may be buried, it may be revised, but if you dig in it you can find original writings and learn the truth. It is an amazing journey. If you just study the declaration of independence and the constitution you will know more than enough. Also read the federalist papers and the anti-federalist papers. There you will learn of the struggle, from the beginning, between states rights and a strong centralized federal government... but no matter, Lincoln decided that issue. Not many people knw that the New England states almost secceded in the early 19th century and president Madison would do nothing because he knew that they had the right to do so. The war of 1812, when the British tok Washington and burned the Whitehouse ended that movement (thanks guys) Anyway... read and learn. It is interesting and you will become really disgusted with modern politicians. One more thing while we are at this... the "midnight ride of Paul Revers (and William Dawes)". We are told that he/they rode and cried. "the British are coming"... but we are not usually told WHY the British were coming. They had a secret plan to come an seize weapons fromthe American people. It didn't work out well and certainly was the basis for the 2nd ammendment... and a quote from Thomas Jefferson, " The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. " Does that appear to you as if they were talking about hunting rifles and shotguns? http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html We, our parents, and our grandparents, even our great grandparents have allowed this country to slowly slide toward despotsism. We must at least try to turn it around... how can we do less? J
post edited by jbow - 2013/01/12 20:49:38
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jbow
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 20:52:11
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Yeah... the whole thread will likey be locked or removed but I am through. I have had my say. I don't argue politics. I just encourage people to educate themselves. If I have trampled the TOS I apologize and will delete my post if asked.
Back to music and foolishness now... nevermind.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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timidi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 20:59:13
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backwoods
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 21:13:11
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You guys need not be too harsh on yourselves- USA is still easily #1- who else comes close? Politics is a right bastard and maybe having that extra tier of government like you guys have restrains it from running amok. But like the guy in the video sharke posted stated and I agree- governments in democracys can take over, it happens here and there throughout history. There is an amazing legal blog called the volokh conspiracy which has about 10 top notch lawyers posting about stuff like this. http://www.volokh.com/ Thanks for the interesting reading in this thread- It's a shame threads like this always descend into madness but I still wish Cakewalk let us talk about such things.
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bayoubill
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 21:30:47
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I think we all should be banned!........... wait, come to think of it most of us have at one time or another  If you haven't well I AM watching you!
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bayoubill
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 21:31:59
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Odd, I got a flash and it posted twice! SPOOKY I SAY!
post edited by bayoubill - 2013/01/12 21:33:04
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jbow
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 21:34:59
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I thought I broke the forum a few minutes ago...
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sharke
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 21:44:58
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mike_mccue
Ok,
Now there is yet another casual generality that inspires further investigation.
The industrial revolution happened from the mid 1700's through to the mid 1800's.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
The Industrial Revolution led to a population increase, but the chances of surviving childhood did not improve throughout the Industrial Revolution (although infant mortality rates were reduced markedly).[70][71]
70) ^ a b Mabel C. Buer, Health, Wealth and Population in the Early Days of the Industrial Revolution, London: George Routledge & Sons, 1926, page 30 ISBN 0-415-38218-1 ^ Bar, Michael; Leukhina, Oksana (2007). http://www.unc.edu/~oksana/Paper1.pdf]"Demographic Transition and Industrial Revolution: A Macroeconomic Investigation"[/link] (PDF). Archived from the original on 2007-11-27. Retrieved 2007-11-05.
71) "The decrease [in mortality] beginning in the second half of the 18th century was due mainly to declining adult mortality. Sustained decline of the mortality rates for the age groups 5-10, 10-15, and 15-25 began in the mid-19th century, while that for the age group 0-5 began three decades later". Although the survival rates for infants and children were static over this period, the birth rate & overall life expectancy increased. Thus the population grew, but the average Briton was about as old in 1850 as in 1750 (see figures 5 & 6, page 28). Population size statistics from mortality.org put the mean age at about 26.
I'm guessing you meant from "then" to "now", rather than from then to then when you used the term Industrial Revolution.
I not in disagreement with your conclusion that more people overall survive to live long lives... I'm just commenting on the proofs you are offering, as they seem familiar and easy to agree with, yet leave me feeling as if they are some sort of convenient substitute for the discussion of nuanced details that will be required before any matters are settled on the subject of voluntary peaceful coexistence.
In any event, the world certainly seems more crowded than ever.
all the best,
mike
The thing is, every single issue has layers of complexity. How deeply you want to get into it really depends upon the format of the discussion and how much time you have. I've been into these long-winded intellectual debates online where successive replies get increasingly verbose and involved, and before you know it each party is writing an essay complete with charts and quotes and links. And you log on to see yet another post that you have to reply to....and you know that reply is going to involve a lot of Google research to find the facts and figures you need. Sooner or later you have to put a stop to it. So yeah, a simple chart showing average life expectancy kind of glosses over a lot of the nuance, and we could sit here all night thrashing over that nuance until the cows come home. But I guess that's something that nobody here really wants to get into The overall point I was trying to make is that the Industrial Revolution and the technology and wealth creation that it made possible has improved living conditions almost immeasurably, and as much as we can argue the details of average life expectancy and what it actually meant, a simple observation of the explosion of world population since the IR kinda says it all. Populations thrive when living conditions improve. And yeah, you could say that the world is getting more and more crowded, but personally that doesn't bother me one little bit. The thing about complaining about population growth is, it takes a certain amount of arrogance. You are in effect saying "these new people being born....they shouldn't be here. I, however, have a perfect right to live, and my existence on this earth isn't part of that overcrowding problem." I guess the only non-hypocritical stance to take against overcrowding would be to sterilize ones self, or taking it further, to commit suicide. Some people look at the exponential explosion in population growth since the IR and see a scourge. I have heard people talk like this. They are, in essence, anti-human. I see population growth as a direct reflection of improved living conditions, and of fewer babies dying. That makes me happy. I also think that it's worth considering this: the more people in the world, the more brain power we have to contribute to the problems of hunger and poverty. The leaps and strides that the human race have made in terms of knowledge and technology have, let's face it, come from a relatively minuscule pool of people. The more people we have, the larger that pool is going to be.
post edited by sharke - 2013/01/12 21:46:09
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yorolpal
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 23:09:48
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Charlie Daniels???? Really??? Charlie Daniels??? Now that's swinging for the fences. What next? Nuge?? Jesse Ventura??? Go for it, ol pal. You are ticklin me pink. Or is that "pinko":-)
Happiness is a warm gun.
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Bub 
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/12 23:58:14
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None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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yorolpal
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 00:19:05
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Absolutely agree, ol pal.
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Rain
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 03:51:01
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Danny Danzi
There is actually some cool stuff in this thread...good reads! I do have a question I'm just curious about.
Do you guys ever feel you don't belong here in this country? For example, I'm not for Democrat or Republican. All I want is for someone to come in and make us one of the greatest countries in the world again as I don't feel we are anymore. Morale is down everywhere, people are being bled dry...you know the routine. We can point fingers all we want....the truth in my opinion is the leaders of the past just put a band-aide on things so they wouldn't look bad. So it's not 1 person being at fault really but a big bunch of mess that has just snow-balled over time.
That said, every time I vote for someone, that someone loses. I no longer want to vote because I feel that I am:
A) Too stupid to understand things that I THINK I understand very well yet I am in the minority
B) Those that do not vote or feel as I do are the stupid ones
It's gotta be one or the other and to be honest, I welcome either with open arms at this point. We're in so deep with so many issues now, only Jesus Himself would be the only one to step in and say "ok look, I got it from here." LOL!
There are just so many things broken from the past/breaking in the present....I can't even watch the news or read about this stuff without feeling the need to snap. These days, I've been taking Bub's stance....I throw my hands in the air and say "there's nothing I can do to change it." We vote for people that chirp one song before they get elected, they get in, everything changes no matter who wins. It just gets to the point of "why bother?"
We are supposed to have a voice yet our voices don't get heard and if you try to really push your point, you get bumped off or something if you even try to rise into power to fight for your rights. I wish I had the answers, but it's time for all those that are in higher places to take a look at the world instead of what goes on in their lives in that one state on "The Hill". I wish someone with some power had the answers and could implement them and make it all better. :(
-Danny
You know, it's not just this country. I feel the same about Canada. I could even narrow it down to the province of Quebec and I'd still don't feel like I belong. Of course we share certain values and a history, but that stuff only goes so far. But when it comes to politics, meh... As such, the more time we spend here, the more I can relate. But, as much as I can relate when I'm in New York, I'm not so sure that I'd feel home in other parts of the US. Still, I absolutely love this country. If not for my wife's family back home, I could live here for the rest of my life.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 04:39:04
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jbow
I just encourage people to educate themselves.
+100%
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spacey
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 07:32:25
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- Danny Danzi
Do you guys ever feel you don't belong here in this country?
I don't feel like I belong on this planet. I can't even tell ya what gravity is that keeps me here. The government? I don't want anything to do with that. Those guys are idiots IMO. They are suppose to be smart and honest.....I know most people came close to puking when they just read that. When I was young I remember one day when I thought they were but then I realized that they mostly just get together in rooms and just walk around bumping into each other. Life expectancy? Well I didn't expect to live as long as I have so I know I don't know anything about that....and I don't trust others since I know about the government.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 08:30:58
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Wise words olpal, Bub and Spacey. :)
One quick word about "being educated" in this whole mess....I remember either Howard Stern or Jimmy Kimmel sending reporters to NYC. They asked people on the streets what they thought of Obama's plan and used Romney's plan in place of it. Hearing them say "yeah, I think it's a great idea" just made me shake my head. The repub's they interviewed were no different...the reporters replaced Romney's plan with Obama's...and yep, you guessed it...they agreed it was the best plan of all time. LOL! Only 2 guys (one from each side) knew they had swapped the plans. Just goes to show you....so many just don't have a clue.
It's not even worth ever getting into a battle with anyone over it really because so many simply don't know. Now when they mess with the Constitution and take away rights...well, I think most of us would agree that's the wrong thing to do unless something was completely justified and voted on BY the people. Even there...super grey area. Though the big C is golden for a lot of things....in 2013, it's definitely a different world.
But hey, as long as we all get along here on the forum and remain family, that's all that matters anyway! The rest of it all stinks and at least we have this place. I'm fine with that....I'll vent and scream into my mic and write a song or something. LOL! I actually got 2 great songs regarding politics that will probably rattle a few cages...but hey, you know how it goes...you tell it how you've lived/experienced it. :)
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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timidi
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 09:37:48
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yorolpal
Charlie Daniels???? Really??? Charlie Daniels??? Now that's swinging for the fences. What next? Nuge?? Jesse Ventura??? Go for it, ol pal. You are ticklin me pink. Or is that "pinko":-)
Happiness is a warm gun.
Not sure what you're inferrin there Ol Pal. I was just sharing a point of view that someone else took the time to type so I didn't have to. what difference does it make who said it? Anyway. Yea. I'm done here. I guess it is pretty hopeless.
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Randy P
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Re:I thought I'd post this
2013/01/13 09:39:37
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Bub
None of us can say what the problem actually is, so why even bother with these threads any more?
THIS!
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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