xxrich
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patch/controller searchback not always?
Greetings!
Driving mostly the Aria player from Sonar Platinum using Garrison patches. With these, if you don't send controller 1 values, you get no volume, so I'm always setting it in piano roll view, midway or so, along with controller 7. Sometimes though, depending on where I start playback certain tracks have no volume. It's been that way for a long time. Am I missing something? I don't have an example handy to quantify this. Maybe if the track is selected there's no controller searchback on it? It's one of those annoying things that I just put up with (and/or quickly hit my keyboard's modulation wheel:-)).
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lorneyb2
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 17:54:32
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With a project open check in Preferences - Project - Midi
Under Other Options make sure you have "Patch/Contoler Searchback before play starts" box checked.
The other possibility is that if you have Echo on for the track it will be accessing the state of you volume wheel or pedal for its input source.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Win 8.1 Pro 64bit, Quad Core 3.2GHz, 16G ram, Edirol FA 101, Nvidia EW (Platinum Orchestra, Hollywood Strings, Pianos, Gypsy, Fab 4, Ministry of Rock,Choirs, etc)
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xxrich
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 17:59:49
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Yeah, checked the preferences 100 times over many months:-)
The echo I did not know, as I never mess with it. They are all "off".
It appears random. Perhaps the controllers remain back "set" just for or within each take? That might explain the apparent randomness of it all.
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azslow3
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 18:14:17
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Check the whole thread with this post: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3335939Either that is related to your issue is an open question, but you can read there we was really unable to understand from where it comes. But if I correctly understand your "workaround", we can try to automate it. It is possible to use MIDI FX to inject some events. With such "FX" inserted into MIDI track, we can send CC1 and CC7 with predefined values every time you start playback. Since there is no source to determine the value (MIDI FX can not "look back"), both values will be constant. But it is possible to make them FX parameters and so different for each particular track. Do you think that can help? If you agree to give that approach a try, technically you will need to follow the video from http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html . The functionality will be in one of example presets then (to avoid misunderstanding, it is not yet there, but I can add it without significant time investment).
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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williamcopper
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 18:29:47
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Yes, as Aslow says, it's real, and still mysterious. His finding that there must be notes in the lookback region for controllers, including patch changes, to be read, may be significant, though I still think there are other issues.
Also, despite many naysayers, I think the disappearance of controller values in PRV after a period of time indicates a lookback problem too.
It is a PITA because you can be working on a project, in the middle somewhere, and be hearing a different set of controllers/patch changes than will be used if the project is played or rendered from the beginning.
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xxrich
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 20:00:13
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williamcopper
It is a PITA because you can be working on a project, in the middle somewhere, and be hearing a different set of controllers/patch changes than will be used if the project is played or rendered from the beginning.
Absolutely that is the challenge!!! Given that others have seen it too, I feel better. I suspect it's a combination of things or a certain set of circumstances that causes it to occur. The worse possible bug to find. So if I start play from the beginning - it's fine as far as I can tell. But of course that's not a very practical solution while composing:-) I'll check the other thread. Never thought of using a midi FX to get through it. Very clever.
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tenfoot
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 21:17:02
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Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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williamcopper
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 21:38:08
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That, zero all controllers, should make no difference on play if lookback really worked -- because, consider: once playback starts, if lookback worked, the controllers would be correctly set to whatever the last valid value was. If there were no valid value, then zero might not be the best default. Anyway, I always uncheck 'zero all controllers', though Sonar on a new project earnestly resets the damn option, ie., sets it ON again. Like so much of sonar's default behaviour, a bad choice.
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tenfoot
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 22:37:09
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williamcopper
That, zero all controllers, should make no difference on play if lookback really worked -- because, consider: once playback starts, if lookback worked, the controllers would be correctly set to whatever the last valid value was. If there were no valid value, then zero might not be the best default. Anyway, I always uncheck 'zero all controllers', though Sonar on a new project earnestly resets the damn option, ie., sets it ON again. Like so much of sonar's default behaviour, a bad choice.
It makes a huge difference - with vsti's there is no reason whatsoever that the controller need ever be inserted unless you made specific use of its function.. Controller seasrch back is then a moot point, regardless of how well you belleve it does or does not work. It may well solve the OP's immediate problem, so I don't see the value in using the post as yet another opportunity to point out what you personally consider Sonars many bad choices.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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xxrich
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 01:45:18
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Yes, it's checked. I've been using what used to be called "Cakewalk" for quite some time :-)
post edited by xxrich - 2016/04/24 02:12:47
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tenfoot
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 03:48:34
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xxrich
Yes, it's checked. I've been using what used to be called "Cakewalk" for quite some time :-)
My point was to uncheck it. It is that setting that is causing the level of your vsti to zero out each time you stop playback. With it unchecked, the level will remain unchanged without the need for constant controller messages or search back. Lots of us have been using cakewalk for 20 years plus but still pick up plenty of tips on this forum:)
post edited by tenfoot - 2016/04/24 04:11:03
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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azslow3
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 04:22:17
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xxrich
I'll check the other thread. Never thought of using a midi FX to get through it. Very clever.
"Example: CC17" is included into Examples set (v5) for AZ Lua.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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xxrich
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 20:28:59
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tenfoot
xxrich
Yes, it's checked. I've been using what used to be called "Cakewalk" for quite some time :-)
My point was to uncheck it. It is that setting that is causing the level of your vsti to zero out each time you stop playback. With it unchecked, the level will remain unchanged without the need for constant controller messages or search back.
Lots of us have been using cakewalk for 20 years plus but still pick up plenty of tips on this forum:)
I'll give it a shot I see your point:-). I always have it on to bring pitch bend back to sanity:-) Still, it certainly doesn't zero out all controllers else I'd hear no noise out of the Aria player:-)
post edited by xxrich - 2016/04/24 20:58:57
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tenfoot
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 22:39:57
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xxrich
tenfoot
xxrich
Yes, it's checked. I've been using what used to be called "Cakewalk" for quite some time :-)
My point was to uncheck it. It is that setting that is causing the level of your vsti to zero out each time you stop playback. With it unchecked, the level will remain unchanged without the need for constant controller messages or search back.
Lots of us have been using cakewalk for 20 years plus but still pick up plenty of tips on this forum:)
I'll give it a shot I see your point:-). I always have it on to bring pitch bend back to sanity:-) Still, it certainly doesn't zero out all controllers else I'd hear no noise out of the Aria player:-)
Haha - pitch bend madness indeed! You are correct that it does not 'zero' every cc, otherwise all synths, vsti or hardware, would go silent. It depends on which controller's the synth is using for expression etc. With many vsti's it is not just cc 7 that affects level. It solved the issue for me with several Kontakt libraries that use modulation cc for expression, resulting in zero level every time controll 01h was zeroed, and they would stay that way until a new value was sent.
post edited by tenfoot - 2016/04/24 23:07:25
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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tenfoot
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/24 23:05:50
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FWIW there is a line in Sonars ttseq.ini to disable sending CC resets to dxi synths
SendResetsToSoftSynths= <0 or 1>)
Unfortunately it does not seem to affect vsti's.
It would be great to be able to exclude particular cc's from the reset. Maybe someone will chime in with a method:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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xxrich
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Re: patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/25 20:34:32
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Not complaining to be sure, as I love Sonar.... Been relying on Aria (and Kontakt) for acoustic instruments these days, and they can be quite the pain for gaining expression though usually well work the struggle. But finding myself setting modulation and volume all the time... I grow so weary of the troll:-)
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