Helpful Replyprepare to send to master

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kawika
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2016/09/12 02:38:18 (permalink)

prepare to send to master

I would love any wisdom regarding preparing a record (12 songs) to be sent to be mastered. I'm sure I will get instructions from the mastering house, but wondered if anybody has done this prep with Sonar Plat.  I'm aware that I could master it myself but am choosing not to go that route.
 
thanks.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/12 04:42:53 (permalink)
Make sure each of your songs has sufficient headroom - I'd suggest anywhere from -12dB to -6dB
 
Try to make sure they are all of a similar loudness, but don't sweat it too much as the mastering guys will do this routinely
 
If you have a specific track order in mind, make sure they are aware of this.

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pwalpwal
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/12 06:42:14 (permalink)
ask your mastering engineer how s/he prefers you to deliver - format, etc

just a sec

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kawika
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/12 20:13:44 (permalink)
Thanks guys. SO...to give my tracks sufficient headroom, I would remove all compression/limiters from the Master output and then just lower the master output volume?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 05:06:11 (permalink)
Remove any Fx from the Master Buss yes.
 
I would NOT lower the MB faders - leave them at 0dB

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 08:09:13 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
Remove any Fx from the Master Buss yes.
 
I would NOT lower the MB faders - leave them at 0dB


What if you have a reverb on the Master Buss? I can see "maybe" taking off a compressor but why remove an effect that is part of the song? Or am I crazy for putting a verb on the master? Seems like a good place for a tying reverb to put everything in the same space.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 08:22:32 (permalink)
Well, I always put reverbs on their own reverb buss(es) - which then goes to the Master
 
When I said "remove any Master buss Fx" I was referring to any sort of mastering chain the OP might have set up

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chuckebaby
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 08:41:38 (permalink)
Remember the more you put into your project, the more you will get in return.
Typically anything I master, or in the past when I have sent to be mastered, I not only send the tracks but also a document for each track with an instrument list (letting them know how many tracks were on the mix, instrument type,exc) and also Producers notes that pertain to each individual song and also all the songs as a whole.
you may realize some last minute things, those should be jot down and sent in the mastering notes.
 
I agree with BJ, I don't use any FX on the master bus (compression, limiter, delay or reverb) remove them before export. I don't let anything above -4dB on that master bus.
 
Remember, don't go crazy with compression and squash all your tracks. its okay for some of them as an effect, but let the mastering engineer reduce the dynamic range with compression and limiting.
of course you need to use compression to tame vocals, round off bass lines, exc but a good mastering engineer will always tell you " don't send me an over compressed mix" because then I have no where to go with it.
 

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Anderton
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 10:26:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/09/13 14:35:38
A good mastering engineer will interact with you about the sound you want. There are at least a dozen valid ways to master a song, but the only one that's truly valid is the one the artist likes.
 
You do not want to put FX in the master bus, mastering engineers should have better toys than you do . There have been occasions when I've added a touch of reverb to a master, although that's very rare. However, I've always found it helpful when I receive a mix with any bus effects in place that someone used so I get an idea of what they want, along with the "naked" mix that I actually master. 
 
I usually give clients a few choices of masters to save time going back and forth to make changes. For example when a client wants one squashed for maximum loudness, I'll do that (I have some semi-proprietary techniques loudness without compromising dynamics excessively) but I also do a version that "breathes" and has some dynamic range. Most of the time clients choose the latter.
 
 

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Cactus Music
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 10:33:47 (permalink)
+1  to leaving the master buss clean. Adding anything to the master buss is an attempt to master yourself. Just leave headroom, as said, with no overs. 
You job is to mix. 
Focus on balancing the tracks the way you like it. And try to get the Bass and Kick under control. Easier to get this right in mixing than in mastering. 
Get you overall vibe happening. 
Try and keep it clean and clear.
 
 
Reverb on the master??? well I guess if it is a monks chanting sort of thing.. 
Nothing worse than reverb on bass IMHO. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/09/13 10:57:51

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Brian Walton
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 10:41:11 (permalink)
Cactus Music
+1  to leaving the master buss clean. Adding anything to the master buss is an attempt to master yourself. Just leave headroom, as said, with no overs. 
You job is to mix. 
Focus on balancing the tracks the way you like it. And try to get the Bass and Kick under control. Easier to get this right in mixing than in mastering. 
Get you overall vibe happening. 
Try and keep it clean and clear.
 
 
Reverb on the master??? well I guess if it is a monks chanting sort of thing.. 
Nothing worse than reverb on bass IMHO. 


You wouldn't use a whole lot on the master, but I've used it to create a cohesive space (no too much unlike a "glue" compressor) in that you are putting something there to tie things together.  
 
Really subtle use.  
 
Ever mic an upright bass?  I bet you had some room reverb in there.  If you close mic a bass amp, or record it direct it is possible there is room to add a slight touch of reverb without anything sounding "off."  
 
I can think of a lot of things worse than reverb on bass.  
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pwalpwal
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 13:02:45 (permalink)
Brian Walton
I can think of a lot of things worse than reverb on bass.  


yeah, like me on bass!

just a sec

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Anderton
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 15:23:20 (permalink)
Or a bass solo 

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 18:12:19 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Reverb on the master??? well I guess if it is a monks chanting sort of thing.. 



 
 
im with you Johnny I've never tried using master bus reverb (like Crag mentioned).
but I cant argue with Mr. Anderson results. I've heard them. they are great.
 
i do however sometimes put master bus compression on the master bus while setting my levels and such.
but i remove it once i export.

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 19:12:28 (permalink)
I always put the LP 64 multi band on the master,, but then it's more or less a safeguard to catch overs. I turn the attack time right down .  It also gives me a visual on which frequencies are going over. I go back to the mix and fix stuff until nothing is showing action. You can pull the levels on each band to see how close things are too. It's a great tool for me and has served me well. But then I'm doing my own mastering after export in a Wave editor. If I did wish to send something off,  I'd probably use it to see what's up and then turn my master level down a touch and by pass the bin before export. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/09/13 19:34:53

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kawika
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 20:27:46 (permalink)
Thanks for all of the great advice! I hadn't planned on having any plug-ins on the Master out.
 
I do have another question: Just to see, I bypassed the aforementioned plug-ins and noticed that, although most of the song rides around -4.0 dB, there are some peaks at 0-DB (even one at +1 db). How do I address this?  thanks
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 21:10:54 (permalink)
chuckebaby
im with you Johnny I've never tried using master bus reverb (like Crag mentioned).
but I cant argue with Mr. Anderson results. I've heard them. they are great.

 
Just to clarify - I do this very rarely, and only once or twice has it been an artistic decision. Most of the time it's to solve a problem, or fit a context that wasn't anticipated when the song was recorded...e.g., mastering a compilation where all the cuts except for one have some degree of reverb. I've also used it sometimes with audio-for-video to diffuse the sound somewhat if it was taking away from the visuals.
 

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Cactus Music
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/13 21:30:05 (permalink)
kawika
Thanks for all of the great advice! I hadn't planned on having any plug-ins on the Master out.
 
I do have another question: Just to see, I bypassed the aforementioned plug-ins and noticed that, although most of the song rides around -4.0 dB, there are some peaks at 0-DB (even one at +1 db). How do I address this?  thanks




 
What I do is find the offending track. Look at the peak and hold meters on each track and see if one of them shows an over. It is often drums or a runaway vocal. 

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kawika
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/17 21:23:36 (permalink)
Thanks Johnny, I want a drastic level change at that spot. Can I just lower the master output so that those peaks are under 0db?
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/17 22:30:11 (permalink)
Yes and no. If one of the tracks is going over it will still be a possible nasty clip. Use volume envelope on the offending peak. 
If none of the tracks are going over and it's the combined level that's driving the master over the top then for sure turn it down or do like I do and use the multi band compressor to see which frequency is offending. 
My take on it is if say, only the the lowest band is the cause of the over and the rest are not moving the meters, then the compressor is only compressing that one frequency and the rest are clean and unaltered. So I just leave the compressor active. The alternative would be turn down the bass or the Kick until the level is not peaking and by pass the bin. 
 
 

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kawika
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/18 02:41:59 (permalink)
Thanks again Johnny! Anybody else want to weigh in on achieving -4Db max on master bus:
 
The easiest way is to just turn down your master output but I guess that's not the right approach.
 
If you disable your comp/limiters on Master Buss and you're still above....what would you do (to keep your same mix)?
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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/18 06:12:13 (permalink)
kawika
If you disable your comp/limiters on Master Buss and you're still above....what would you do (to keep your same mix)?



If all Master Buss Fx are removed and the buss is still peaking above 0dB then you need to go back and adjust the level of all your tracks
 
This is where using offset mode comes into it's own:
 
  1. Engage Offset mode
  2. Select All tracks
  3. Lower all tracks simultaneously
  4. Disengage Offset Mode
This can have one disadvantage. If any of your tracks are feeding sends to reverb/delay busses then you will have upset the wet/dry balance. The mix will now sound Wetter than it did before because you're still hearing the same amount of Wet signal compared to a lower amount of dry.
 
However, you can engage Offset Mode again and this time just group together any sends and reduce them by the same amount as you adjusted your faders
 
 
post edited by Bristol_Jonesey - 2016/09/18 06:34:24

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/19 00:10:09 (permalink)
I've never done this,, just thinking out loud,, if your did that in offset mode but used the gain instead of the level,, wouldn't that also lower the effects send as well??????  

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/19 05:31:20 (permalink)
Possibly Johnny, I've never tried it 

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/19 11:33:01 (permalink)
kawika
Thanks again Johnny! Anybody else want to weigh in on achieving -4Db max on master bus:
 
The easiest way is to just turn down your master output but I guess that's not the right approach.
 
If you disable your comp/limiters on Master Buss and you're still above....what would you do (to keep your same mix)?


Grab all your faders and turn them down a little bit.
 

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/19 14:34:09 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I've never done this,, just thinking out loud,, if your did that in offset mode but used the gain instead of the level,, wouldn't that also lower the effects send as well??????  


Just tried this, and it doesn't work. Seems like gain isn't exposed to Offset Mode.

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/19 20:25:45 (permalink)
Dang,,could have been Andertons tip of the week....

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/20 09:23:00 (permalink)
Let me get this straight...is it being assumed that everyone is sending their songs in as Cakewalk Sonar projects, or as wave files?  Obviously, a lot of mastering houses do not utilize Sonar in their tools. Or, are they sent out as OMF files or separate wave files?  Would it be best to seek out mastering people who specialize in Sonar mastering?

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/20 09:29:46 (permalink)
I don't think that assumption is correct.
 
I would have assumed the Mastering House would be expecting a stereo wav.

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Re: prepare to send to master 2016/09/20 12:21:34 (permalink)
Yes.. sending a Sonar CWP or ? to another studio would be for mixing, not mastering.
Mastering houses only deal in Stereo. Unless it's for a surround project.
It was not that long ago you needed to own a 2 Track R-R deck to submit for mastering ( $1,500-$10,000. Then came DAT ( $1,600- $6,000.  I remember the first stand alone CD burners ( $3,000 and later $800) . We are spoiled rotten now, everything is free. We don't even need to drive there or mail the master.
A short time ago home recording required a lot of spare cash and a heck of a lot more education just to push the record button. You had to read a few books or take courses.
 
I still think it's worth the time to start with a good read though a full course of the art of studio recording to understand the lingo and the process from start to finish. You'll get a lot more enjoyment out of the process knowing what's up.  There are many great books available. This new trend of watching home made videos has the pitfall of consuming bad advise from another amateur. I've watched some of them,, :(   A published book would still be my choice.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2016/09/20 12:45:37

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